4 ms·

It's definitely not the best we have though. People have created all kinds of metrics which measured things in better ways more relevant to our human goals. It'

It's definitely not the best we have though. People have created all kinds of metrics which measured things in better ways more relevant to our human goals. It's an entire genre of publication in economics and some of them are very popular. It's a choice to ignore them. Also, see what djtango said. It's not that simple.

boxed 9mo ago
It's the best that has been used by a society that didn't later collapse though.
- guerrilla 9mo ago
  That's hardly a relevant response considering no society have used any of the ones I am speaking about in the way that you mean. The OECD, UN, IMF and others use many of them as secondary metrics though.
  - boxed 9mo ago
    I just find the "what have the romans ever done for us?" argument to be scary. It leads very quickly and easily to struggle sessions and the terror. I'm all for trying things for sure, but it has to be done in very small scale and over significant time scales.
    - NoGravitas 9mo ago
      "THERE were two “Reigns of Terror,” if we would but remember it and consider it; the one wrought murder in hot passion, the other in heartless cold blood; the one lasted mere months, the other had lasted a thousand years; the one inflicted death upon ten thousand persons, the other upon a hundred millions; but our shudders are all for the “horrors” of the minor Terror, the momentary Terror, so to speak; whereas, what is the horror of swift death by the axe, compared with lifelong death from hunger, cold, insult, cruelty, and heart-break? What is swift death by lightning compared with death by slow fire at the stake? A city cemetery could contain the coffins filled by that brief Terror which we have all been so diligently taught to shiver at and mourn over; but all France could hardly contain the coffins filled by that older and real Terror—that unspeakably bitter and awful Terror which none of us has been taught to see in its vastness or pity as it deserves.” ― Mark Twain, A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court
      - boxed 9mo ago
        Sure. And that longer and older terror was the lack of free markets and science. Exactly the thing the kids these days want to remove because "what did the romans ever do for us?".
baxtr 9mo ago
Similarly it’s a choice to ignore all those KPIs that are confounded. Being pedantic about how we measure progress might create the impression that it’s not about the progress but instead about being right.
- guerrilla 9mo ago
  Well, being right is better than being wrong, which is what happens when you claim that GDP as a measure of progress is valid. It simply doesn't measure what matter to the majority of humans, which has been argued endlessly already.

boxed 9mo ago

It's the best that has been used by a society that didn't later collapse though.

guerrilla 9mo ago
That's hardly a relevant response considering no society have used any of the ones I am speaking about in the way that you mean. The OECD, UN, IMF and others use many of them as secondary metrics though.
- boxed 9mo ago
  I just find the "what have the romans ever done for us?" argument to be scary. It leads very quickly and easily to struggle sessions and the terror. I'm all for trying things for sure, but it has to be done in very small scale and over significant time scales.
  - NoGravitas 9mo ago
    "THERE were two “Reigns of Terror,” if we would but remember it and consider it; the one wrought murder in hot passion, the other in heartless cold blood; the one lasted mere months, the other had lasted a thousand years; the one inflicted death upon ten thousand persons, the other upon a hundred millions; but our shudders are all for the “horrors” of the minor Terror, the momentary Terror, so to speak; whereas, what is the horror of swift death by the axe, compared with lifelong death from hunger, cold, insult, cruelty, and heart-break? What is swift death by lightning compared with death by slow fire at the stake? A city cemetery could contain the coffins filled by that brief Terror which we have all been so diligently taught to shiver at and mourn over; but all France could hardly contain the coffins filled by that older and real Terror—that unspeakably bitter and awful Terror which none of us has been taught to see in its vastness or pity as it deserves.” ― Mark Twain, A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court
    - boxed 9mo ago
      Sure. And that longer and older terror was the lack of free markets and science. Exactly the thing the kids these days want to remove because "what did the romans ever do for us?".

baxtr 9mo ago

Similarly it’s a choice to ignore all those KPIs that are confounded. Being pedantic about how we measure progress might create the impression that it’s not about the progress but instead about being right.

guerrilla 9mo ago
Well, being right is better than being wrong, which is what happens when you claim that GDP as a measure of progress is valid. It simply doesn't measure what matter to the majority of humans, which has been argued endlessly already.