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Populism is best understood as the general public asserting elites have “broken the deal” that legitimizes their rule — and the public withdrawing their assent

by zmgsabst 10mo ago

Populism is best understood as the general public asserting elites have “broken the deal” that legitimizes their rule — and the public withdrawing their assent from the regime. They are correct that the technocratic managerialists on the past century have failed — and failed in a way damaging to the state/nation. (For US and EU at least.) In so far as we’re all discussing that (and have been for several years), they’ve been wildly successful.

justonceokay 10mo ago
Of course populism is a wonderful tool for “elites” to abuse power, so maybe the story is more complicated
Nursie 10mo ago
Agreed. I am not a supporter of Nigel Farage and his many different parties in the UK ('Reform' just being the latest incarnation), and I don't believe his policies offer any real answers. But what the rise of Reform does show us is the utter disillusionment with the mainstream parties of the UK, who have spent the last several decades afraid to make meaningful changes. They tell people they can't have what they want because it would be too risky/expensive/whatever. We can't do that, the bond markets won't like it. We're running high on debt so we can't afford to make this better. Here, I'm going to add 0.4% to this tax so we can give this service an extra 0.3% budget. All the while government takes more in tax every year but the country feels like it's in a state of managed decline as services struggle. People wonder where all the money is going and there's no particularly good answer. And the managerial politicians' cautious approach hasn't led to economic growth either, so people don't feel like things are getting any easier. With that background it's hardly surprising that the populace flock to someone loudly offering change, even if it's bullshit change. (I left the UK a few years ago but I do visit and keep up on the news. Australia is on a similar path but less extreme, though with accelerating house prices and other forms of inequality, and the collapse of our traditional centre-right, expect things to get more populist in the coming years)
- throwaway132448 10mo ago
  I agree. Reform's success is utterly predictable. > I don't believe his policies offer any real answers. Indeed, it's a shame that people are too dumb to realise they're just lining themselves up to be fleeced by a different "elite", instead of actual change.
- cal_dent 10mo ago
  While I sympathise and agree with the point, it’s easiest to blame political parties but the electorate are also to blame. They simply want to have their cake and eat it too. Plenty of times post-GFC where parties have tried or proposed much needed reform only for the voters, gerrymandered by the press, to throw their toys out of the pram. Theresa May’s “demantia tax”, Starmer’s winter fuel allowance for example. Sadly it feels like it’ll probably be taken out of everyone’s hand, through some sort of economic crash or worse, to get people to be realistic again.
  - Nursie 10mo ago
    > Starmer’s winter fuel allowance for example. To me this is a prime example of the problem - they were really just fucking around at the edges anyway. It wasn't any sort of major reform. That old scene from Futurama often springs to mind - "I say that your 3% Titanium tax goes too far!" "And I say that your 3% Titanium tax doesn't go too far enough!" I do agree the press are complicit though.
    - cal_dent 10mo ago
      Completely. That was the thing about the winter fuel allowance. It was largely a nothing burger and yet they couldn’t allow them to get it through. You could see almost immediately after they pulled back, what little confidence and ability the government had melt away. It’s been more of the same ever since
- neilwilson 10mo ago
  You might want to read https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/epdf/10.1080/00213624.2025.2533726?needAccess=true https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/epdf/10.1080/00213624.2025.2... Which will disabuse you of the notion that we are "high on debt". "high on savings" perhaps. We can always afford to make things better. Afford is never the issue. Political will to take on the vested interests is the issue.
epolanski 10mo ago
This is all so vague. We come from decades if not a century of spectacular growth and yet "technocratic managerialists have failed", what, where, how? The United States comes out of 25 years of unprecedented growth, in spite of two major economical recessions and has outpaced the majority of advanced economies.
- zmgsabst 10mo ago
  You’re using top line numbers to make that assertion, but gains are not evenly distributed. There’s prolific ink spilled on the failures of technocratic managerialism over the past 40 years as gain become decoupled — and particularly over the past decade as the breakdown has reached critical mass.
  - epolanski 10mo ago
    Then post these scientific papers on the failures of technocratic managerialism.
    - almosthere 10mo ago
      The massive amounts of homeless in america that can't do computer stuff.

justonceokay 10mo ago

Of course populism is a wonderful tool for “elites” to abuse power, so maybe the story is more complicated

Nursie 10mo ago

Agreed. I am not a supporter of Nigel Farage and his many different parties in the UK ('Reform' just being the latest incarnation), and I don't believe his policies offer any real answers. But what the rise of Reform does show us is the utter disillusionment with the mainstream parties of the UK, who have spent the last several decades afraid to make meaningful changes. They tell people they can't have what they want because it would be too risky/expensive/whatever. We can't do that, the bond markets won't like it. We're running high on debt so we can't afford to make this better. Here, I'm going to add 0.4% to this tax so we can give this service an extra 0.3% budget. All the while government takes more in tax every year but the country feels like it's in a state of managed decline as services struggle. People wonder where all the money is going and there's no particularly good answer. And the managerial politicians' cautious approach hasn't led to economic growth either, so people don't feel like things are getting any easier. With that background it's hardly surprising that the populace flock to someone loudly offering change, even if it's bullshit change. (I left the UK a few years ago but I do visit and keep up on the news. Australia is on a similar path but less extreme, though with accelerating house prices and other forms of inequality, and the collapse of our traditional centre-right, expect things to get more populist in the coming years)

throwaway132448 10mo ago
I agree. Reform's success is utterly predictable. > I don't believe his policies offer any real answers. Indeed, it's a shame that people are too dumb to realise they're just lining themselves up to be fleeced by a different "elite", instead of actual change.
cal_dent 10mo ago
While I sympathise and agree with the point, it’s easiest to blame political parties but the electorate are also to blame. They simply want to have their cake and eat it too. Plenty of times post-GFC where parties have tried or proposed much needed reform only for the voters, gerrymandered by the press, to throw their toys out of the pram. Theresa May’s “demantia tax”, Starmer’s winter fuel allowance for example. Sadly it feels like it’ll probably be taken out of everyone’s hand, through some sort of economic crash or worse, to get people to be realistic again.
- Nursie 10mo ago
  > Starmer’s winter fuel allowance for example. To me this is a prime example of the problem - they were really just fucking around at the edges anyway. It wasn't any sort of major reform. That old scene from Futurama often springs to mind - "I say that your 3% Titanium tax goes too far!" "And I say that your 3% Titanium tax doesn't go too far enough!" I do agree the press are complicit though.
  - cal_dent 10mo ago
    Completely. That was the thing about the winter fuel allowance. It was largely a nothing burger and yet they couldn’t allow them to get it through. You could see almost immediately after they pulled back, what little confidence and ability the government had melt away. It’s been more of the same ever since
neilwilson 10mo ago
You might want to read https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/epdf/10.1080/00213624.2025.2533726?needAccess=true https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/epdf/10.1080/00213624.2025.2... Which will disabuse you of the notion that we are "high on debt". "high on savings" perhaps. We can always afford to make things better. Afford is never the issue. Political will to take on the vested interests is the issue.

epolanski 10mo ago

This is all so vague. We come from decades if not a century of spectacular growth and yet "technocratic managerialists have failed", what, where, how? The United States comes out of 25 years of unprecedented growth, in spite of two major economical recessions and has outpaced the majority of advanced economies.

zmgsabst 10mo ago
You’re using top line numbers to make that assertion, but gains are not evenly distributed. There’s prolific ink spilled on the failures of technocratic managerialism over the past 40 years as gain become decoupled — and particularly over the past decade as the breakdown has reached critical mass.
- epolanski 10mo ago
  Then post these scientific papers on the failures of technocratic managerialism.
  - almosthere 10mo ago
    The massive amounts of homeless in america that can't do computer stuff.