6 ms·

This is an unusual L for Anthropic. The unfortunate truth is that the engineering in opencode is so far ahead of Claude Code. Obviously, CC is a great tool, but

by dboon 9mo ago

This is an unusual L for Anthropic. The unfortunate truth is that the engineering in opencode is so far ahead of Claude Code. Obviously, CC is a great tool, but that's more about the magic of the model than the engineering of the CLI. The opencode team[^1][^2] built an entire custom TUI backend that supports a good subset of HTML/CSS and the TypeScript ecosystem (i.e. not tied to Opencode, a generic TUI renderer). Then, they built the product as a client/server, so you can use the agent part of it for whatever you want, separate from the TUI. And THEN, since they implemented the TUI as a generic client, they could also build a web view and desktop view over the same server. It also doesn't flicker at 30 FPS whenever it spawns a subagent. That's just the tip of the iceberg. There are so many QoL features in opencode that put CC to shame. Again, CC is a magical tool, but the actual nuts and bolts engineering of it is pretty damning for "LLMs will write all of our code soon". I'm sorry, but I'm a decent-systems-programmer-but-terminal-moron and I cranked out a raymarched 3D renderer in the terminal for a Claude Wrapped[^] in a weekend that...doesn't flicker. I don't mean that in a look-at-me way. I mean that in a "a mid-tier systems programmer isn't making these mistakes" kind of way. Anyway, this is embarrassing for Anthropic. I get that opencode shouldn't have been authenticating this way. I'm not saying what they are doing is a rug pull, or immoral. But there's a reason people use this tool instead of your first party one. Maybe let those world class systems designers who created the runtime that powers opencode get their hands on your TUI before nicking something that is an objectively better product. [^1] https://github.com/anomalyco/opentui https://github.com/anomalyco/opentui [^2] From my loose following of the development, not a monolith, and the person mostly responsible for the TUI framework is https://x.com/kmdrfx https://x.com/kmdrfx [^3] https://spader.zone/wrapped/ https://spader.zone/wrapped/

createaccount99 9mo ago
> unusual L for Anthropic Not unusual, not for Anthropic.
IgorPartola 9mo ago
My favorite is running CC in a screen session. There if I type out a prompt and then just start holding down the backspace key to delete a bunch of characters, at some point they key press refresh rate outruns CC’s brains and it just starts acting like it moved the cursor but didn’t delete anything. It is an embarrassing bug, but one that I suspect wouldn’t be found in automated testing.
- eru 9mo ago
  Have you tried tmux?
  - Ycros 9mo ago
    I use tmux, I have this exact same bug in tmux. It's part of why I use OpenCode and not Claude Code.
    - eru 9mo ago
      Thanks!
  - _zoltan_ 9mo ago
    unfortunately it's buggy in tmux as well. last night I couldn't hit esc after a long, long session as it simply ignored the key. doesn't happen outside of tmux.
- visarga 9mo ago
  Talking about embarrassing bugs, Claude chat (both web and iOS apps) lately tend to lose the user message when there is a network error. This happens every day to me lately. It is frustrating to retype a message from memory, first time you are "in the flow" second time it feels like unjust punishment. With all the Claude Code in the world how come they don't write good enough tests to catch UI bugs? I have come to the point where I preemptively copy the message in clipboard to prevent retyping.
  - BoorishBears 9mo ago
    Ctrl Z usually recovers the missing text, even across page refreshes
  - prodigycorp 9mo ago
    This is an old bug. I cant believe they haven't fixed it yet. My compliments for the Claude frontend start and end at artifacts.
- 9mo ago
BoiledCabbage 9mo ago
> Anyway, this is embarrassing for Anthropic. Why? A few times in this thread I hear people saying "they shouldn't have done this" or something similar but not given any reason why. Listing features you like of another product isn't a reason they shouldn't have done it. It's absolutely not embarrassing, and if anything it's embarrassing they didn't catch and do it sooner.
- ehnto 9mo ago
  As a user it is because I can no longer use the subscription with the greater tooling ecosystem. As for Anthropic, they might not want to do this as they may lose users who decide to use another provider, since without the cost benefit of the subscription it doesn't make sense to stay with them and also be locked into their tooling.
  - deleted 9mo ago
    [deleted]
  - what 9mo ago
    The subscription is for their products? If you want to use their models in another product you can pay for the API usage.
    - ehnto 9mo ago
      From my perspective, I was paying for the model. This is kind of a pointless distinction now though. It was working and now it isn't, and the outcome is that some of their customers are unhappy and might move on. API access is not the same product offering as the subscription, so that's probably a practical option but not a comparable one.
      - _zoltan_ 9mo ago
        you yourself admit that API access is a separate product. if you want to use 3rd party tooling, pay for API access. if you want to use (most likely heavily) subsidized subscription plans, use their ecosystem. it's that simple.
dcre 9mo ago
I've used both CC and OpenCode quite a bit and while I like both and especially appreciate the work around OpenTUI, experience-wise I see almost no difference between the two. Maybe it's because my computer is fast and I use Ghostty, but I don't experience any flickering in CC. Testing now, I see typing is slightly less responsive in CC (very slightly: I never noticed until I was testing it on purpose). We will see whether OpenCode's architecture lets them move faster while working on the desktop and TUI versions in parallel, but it's so early — you can't say that vision has been borne out yet.
NetOpWibby 9mo ago
inb4 Anthropic acquires Opencode
- dboon 9mo ago
  I actually wouldn't be that surprised by this. I'd be more surprised at the OC people folding (not the right word, but you get it) on some pretty heavy ambitions in favor of an acquisition.
  - yieldcrv 9mo ago
    the right word, keeping with card playing and poker terms would be book a win or win the hand, scoop the pot
xpe 9mo ago
Update: Ah, I see this part: "This credential is only authorized for use with Claude Code and cannot be used for other API requests." Old comment for posterity: How do we know this was a strategy/policy decision versus just an engineering change? (Maybe the answer is obvious, but I haven't seen the source for it yet.) I skimmed the GitHub issue, but I didn't see discussion about why this change happened. I don't mean just the technical change; I mean why Anthropic did it. Did I miss something?
ChicagoDave 9mo ago
Or just maybe submit feature requests instead of backdooring a closed source system.
- oblio 9mo ago
  All the TUI agents are awful at scrolling. I'm on Ubuntu 24.04 and both Claude Code and Gemini CLI absolutely destroy scrolling. I've tested Claude Code in the VS Code and it's better there, but in the Gnome Terminal it's plain unusable. And a lot of people are reporting scrolling issues. As someone was saying, it's like they don't have access to the world's best coding LLM to debug these issues.
  - ChicagoDave 9mo ago
    I use Claude Code every day and it works perfectly fine outside of a few bugs (they broke ESC interrupt in 2.1). I just don’t understand the misplaced anger at breaking TOS (even for a good reason) and getting slapped down. Like what did anyone think would happen? We all want these tools and companies to succeed. Anthropic needs to find profit in a few years. It’s in all of our best interests to augment that success, not bitch because they’re not doing it your way.
    - oblio 9mo ago
      > We all want these tools and companies to succeed. Anthropic needs to find profit in a few years. It’s in all of our best interests to augment that success, not bitch because they’re not doing it your way. Considering they're destroying a lot of fields of industry, I'm not sure I want them to succeed. Are we sure they're making the world a better place? Or are they just concentrating wealth, like Google, Meta, Microsoft, Amazon, Uber, Doordash, Airbnb and all the other holy-tech grails in the last 20 years? Our lives are more convenient than they were 20 years ago and probably poorer and more stressful.
      - ChicagoDave 9mo ago
        And that actually might get conservatives on board with universal basic income, which would be a very good thing. I'm well aware of where wealth is today. There is a massive regressive imbalance. Historically we've either had a bank systemic failure with depression to curtail it or a civil war. I'm hoping everyone under 40 years old will engage in local, state, and federal politics and reverse this without a depression or war. Time will tell, and November is closing in on our collective democratic future.
slekker 9mo ago
How much do you use AI in your day? Are you a heavy user? Asking because your comment has a lot of "LLM mannerism"
- dboon 9mo ago
  No, it doesn’t.
alexeiz 9mo ago
> The unfortunate truth is that the engineering in opencode is so far ahead of Claude Code. If only Claude Code developers had access to a powerful LLM that would allow them to close the engineering gap. Oh, wait...
- wiseowise 9mo ago
  It’s a pure marketing. When will people understand that?
- llmslave2 9mo ago
  Anthropic developers run 10 Claude Code instances at once, with unlimited access to the best models.
cat-whisperer 9mo ago
I am curious, I haven't faced any major issues using claude code in my daily workflow. Never noticed any flickering either. Why do you think opencode > CC? what are some productivity/practical implications?
- azuanrb 9mo ago
  Opencode has a web UI, so I can open it on my laptop and then resume the same session on the web from my phone through Tailscale. It’s pretty handy from time to time and takes almost zero effort from me. The flickering is still happening to me. It's less frequent than before, but still does for long/big sessions.
satvikpendem 9mo ago
> Anyway, this is embarrassing for Anthropic. I get that opencode shouldn't have been authenticating this way. I'm not saying what they are doing is a rug pull, or immoral. But there's a reason people use this tool instead of your first party one. Maybe let those world class systems designers who created the runtime that powers opencode get their hands on your TUI before nicking something that is an objectively better product. This is nothing new, they pulled Claude models from the Trae editor over "security concerns." It seems like Anthropic are too pearl-clutching in comparison to other companies, and it makes sense given they started in response to thinking OpenAI was not safety oriented enough.
vinhnx 9mo ago
> The unfortunate truth is that the engineering in opencode is so far ahead of Claude Code I'm curious, what made you think of that?
kristianp 9mo ago
Interesting that [1] is 30% zig as well as mostly typescript. That's a lot of native code for something that runs in a terminal (i.e. no graphical code required).
jcheng 9mo ago
An engineer on my team who is working on TUI stuff said that avoiding the flicker is difficult without affecting the ability to copy/paste using the mouse (something to do with "alternate screen mode"). I haven't used OpenCode (yet) but Google does turn up some questions (and suggested workarounds) around copy/paste.
klas_segeljakt 9mo ago
so much for acquiring Bun...

by dboon 9mo ago

createaccount99 9mo ago

> unusual L for Anthropic Not unusual, not for Anthropic.

IgorPartola 9mo ago

My favorite is running CC in a screen session. There if I type out a prompt and then just start holding down the backspace key to delete a bunch of characters, at some point they key press refresh rate outruns CC’s brains and it just starts acting like it moved the cursor but didn’t delete anything. It is an embarrassing bug, but one that I suspect wouldn’t be found in automated testing.

eru 9mo ago
Have you tried tmux?
- Ycros 9mo ago
  I use tmux, I have this exact same bug in tmux. It's part of why I use OpenCode and not Claude Code.
  - eru 9mo ago
    Thanks!
- _zoltan_ 9mo ago
  unfortunately it's buggy in tmux as well. last night I couldn't hit esc after a long, long session as it simply ignored the key. doesn't happen outside of tmux.
visarga 9mo ago
Talking about embarrassing bugs, Claude chat (both web and iOS apps) lately tend to lose the user message when there is a network error. This happens every day to me lately. It is frustrating to retype a message from memory, first time you are "in the flow" second time it feels like unjust punishment. With all the Claude Code in the world how come they don't write good enough tests to catch UI bugs? I have come to the point where I preemptively copy the message in clipboard to prevent retyping.
- BoorishBears 9mo ago
  Ctrl Z usually recovers the missing text, even across page refreshes
- prodigycorp 9mo ago
  This is an old bug. I cant believe they haven't fixed it yet. My compliments for the Claude frontend start and end at artifacts.
9mo ago

BoiledCabbage 9mo ago

> Anyway, this is embarrassing for Anthropic. Why? A few times in this thread I hear people saying "they shouldn't have done this" or something similar but not given any reason why. Listing features you like of another product isn't a reason they shouldn't have done it. It's absolutely not embarrassing, and if anything it's embarrassing they didn't catch and do it sooner.

ehnto 9mo ago
As a user it is because I can no longer use the subscription with the greater tooling ecosystem. As for Anthropic, they might not want to do this as they may lose users who decide to use another provider, since without the cost benefit of the subscription it doesn't make sense to stay with them and also be locked into their tooling.
- deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]
- what 9mo ago
  The subscription is for their products? If you want to use their models in another product you can pay for the API usage.
  - ehnto 9mo ago
    From my perspective, I was paying for the model. This is kind of a pointless distinction now though. It was working and now it isn't, and the outcome is that some of their customers are unhappy and might move on. API access is not the same product offering as the subscription, so that's probably a practical option but not a comparable one.
    - _zoltan_ 9mo ago
      you yourself admit that API access is a separate product. if you want to use 3rd party tooling, pay for API access. if you want to use (most likely heavily) subsidized subscription plans, use their ecosystem. it's that simple.

dcre 9mo ago

I've used both CC and OpenCode quite a bit and while I like both and especially appreciate the work around OpenTUI, experience-wise I see almost no difference between the two. Maybe it's because my computer is fast and I use Ghostty, but I don't experience any flickering in CC. Testing now, I see typing is slightly less responsive in CC (very slightly: I never noticed until I was testing it on purpose). We will see whether OpenCode's architecture lets them move faster while working on the desktop and TUI versions in parallel, but it's so early — you can't say that vision has been borne out yet.

NetOpWibby 9mo ago

inb4 Anthropic acquires Opencode

dboon 9mo ago
I actually wouldn't be that surprised by this. I'd be more surprised at the OC people folding (not the right word, but you get it) on some pretty heavy ambitions in favor of an acquisition.
- yieldcrv 9mo ago
  the right word, keeping with card playing and poker terms would be book a win or win the hand, scoop the pot

xpe 9mo ago

Update: Ah, I see this part: "This credential is only authorized for use with Claude Code and cannot be used for other API requests." Old comment for posterity: How do we know this was a strategy/policy decision versus just an engineering change? (Maybe the answer is obvious, but I haven't seen the source for it yet.) I skimmed the GitHub issue, but I didn't see discussion about why this change happened. I don't mean just the technical change; I mean why Anthropic did it. Did I miss something?

ChicagoDave 9mo ago

Or just maybe submit feature requests instead of backdooring a closed source system.

oblio 9mo ago
All the TUI agents are awful at scrolling. I'm on Ubuntu 24.04 and both Claude Code and Gemini CLI absolutely destroy scrolling. I've tested Claude Code in the VS Code and it's better there, but in the Gnome Terminal it's plain unusable. And a lot of people are reporting scrolling issues. As someone was saying, it's like they don't have access to the world's best coding LLM to debug these issues.
- ChicagoDave 9mo ago
  I use Claude Code every day and it works perfectly fine outside of a few bugs (they broke ESC interrupt in 2.1). I just don’t understand the misplaced anger at breaking TOS (even for a good reason) and getting slapped down. Like what did anyone think would happen? We all want these tools and companies to succeed. Anthropic needs to find profit in a few years. It’s in all of our best interests to augment that success, not bitch because they’re not doing it your way.
  - oblio 9mo ago
    > We all want these tools and companies to succeed. Anthropic needs to find profit in a few years. It’s in all of our best interests to augment that success, not bitch because they’re not doing it your way. Considering they're destroying a lot of fields of industry, I'm not sure I want them to succeed. Are we sure they're making the world a better place? Or are they just concentrating wealth, like Google, Meta, Microsoft, Amazon, Uber, Doordash, Airbnb and all the other holy-tech grails in the last 20 years? Our lives are more convenient than they were 20 years ago and probably poorer and more stressful.
    - ChicagoDave 9mo ago
      And that actually might get conservatives on board with universal basic income, which would be a very good thing. I'm well aware of where wealth is today. There is a massive regressive imbalance. Historically we've either had a bank systemic failure with depression to curtail it or a civil war. I'm hoping everyone under 40 years old will engage in local, state, and federal politics and reverse this without a depression or war. Time will tell, and November is closing in on our collective democratic future.

slekker 9mo ago

How much do you use AI in your day? Are you a heavy user? Asking because your comment has a lot of "LLM mannerism"

dboon 9mo ago
No, it doesn’t.

alexeiz 9mo ago

> The unfortunate truth is that the engineering in opencode is so far ahead of Claude Code. If only Claude Code developers had access to a powerful LLM that would allow them to close the engineering gap. Oh, wait...

wiseowise 9mo ago
It’s a pure marketing. When will people understand that?
llmslave2 9mo ago
Anthropic developers run 10 Claude Code instances at once, with unlimited access to the best models.

cat-whisperer 9mo ago

I am curious, I haven't faced any major issues using claude code in my daily workflow. Never noticed any flickering either. Why do you think opencode > CC? what are some productivity/practical implications?

azuanrb 9mo ago
Opencode has a web UI, so I can open it on my laptop and then resume the same session on the web from my phone through Tailscale. It’s pretty handy from time to time and takes almost zero effort from me. The flickering is still happening to me. It's less frequent than before, but still does for long/big sessions.

satvikpendem 9mo ago

> Anyway, this is embarrassing for Anthropic. I get that opencode shouldn't have been authenticating this way. I'm not saying what they are doing is a rug pull, or immoral. But there's a reason people use this tool instead of your first party one. Maybe let those world class systems designers who created the runtime that powers opencode get their hands on your TUI before nicking something that is an objectively better product. This is nothing new, they pulled Claude models from the Trae editor over "security concerns." It seems like Anthropic are too pearl-clutching in comparison to other companies, and it makes sense given they started in response to thinking OpenAI was not safety oriented enough.

vinhnx 9mo ago

> The unfortunate truth is that the engineering in opencode is so far ahead of Claude Code I'm curious, what made you think of that?

kristianp 9mo ago

Interesting that [1] is 30% zig as well as mostly typescript. That's a lot of native code for something that runs in a terminal (i.e. no graphical code required).

jcheng 9mo ago

An engineer on my team who is working on TUI stuff said that avoiding the flicker is difficult without affecting the ability to copy/paste using the mouse (something to do with "alternate screen mode"). I haven't used OpenCode (yet) but Google does turn up some questions (and suggested workarounds) around copy/paste.

klas_segeljakt 9mo ago

so much for acquiring Bun...