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I'd love to hear an argument for this being true that doesn't involve counting all of the deaths caused by Sunni-Shia sectarian violence in Iraq, suicide bombin
by dralley 9mo ago
I'd love to hear an argument for this being true that doesn't involve counting all of the deaths caused by Sunni-Shia sectarian violence in Iraq, suicide bombings in civilian markets, ISIS etc. as caused by America.
- ebbi 9mo agoWell there's Vietnam, Afghanistan, Syria, Yemen, Libya etc which would tally ~300k civilian deaths alone. Given the blatantly false pretences that America invaded Iraq under, and the sectarian violence that significantly flared post-Saddam, I don't see why you'd not want to involve Iraq in the stats?
- dralley 9mo agoI accept US responsibility for a great many of the civilian deaths caused in Vietnam. I don't accept US responsibility for Islamists of different varieties blowing up each other's markets and places of worship with weapons provided by Iran and Syria.
- ebbi 9mo agoSo you don't accept the fact that a lot of this sectarian violence flared after the toppling of Saddam, which was because of the US? And how many of the deaths do you attribute to the sectarian violence, as opposed to the direct actions of the US in the region?
- UltraSane 9mo agoThe VAST majority of the deaths were from sectarian violence.
- jokowueu 9mo agoThat was caused by a power vacuum and US's intentional act to oust the Ba'ath Party, remove all control from a country and it will fall to chaos especially when blood feuds are involved .
- cess11 9mo agoAfter toppling Saddam Hussein the US took political control in the country and decided who got to decide what. The slaughter that followed was a direct and rather predictable result of this.
- krainboltgreene 9mo ago[flagged]
- dralley 9mo agoWhat is your preferred term for individuals and groups whose stated goal is to create a non-pluralistic religious state advantaging specifically their own religious sect, and whose means involves committing public mass killing of civilians along sectarian religious lines?
- mindslight 9mo agoRepublicans? (come on, it's just a joke. we're still allowed to laugh at jokes, right?)
- siltcakes 9mo ago[flagged]
- dspillett 9mo agoReligious zelots. There is nothing specifically Islamic in that description.
- dralley 9mo agoYes but the context was a discussion specifically about Iraq.
- lostlogin 9mo agoDo you believe the violence would have happened without the US invasion?
- IncreasePosts 9mo agoProbably not the same violence. But Saddam would have kept genociding the Kurds if he stayed in power. And maybe launched another war against Iran.
- lostlogin 9mo agoSo local carnage (which the US happily watched prior, and supports Turkey perpetuating) versus carnage spanning the whole region.
- angra_mainyu 9mo agoHey, get with the times. Whitewashing jihadis is in vogue these days.
- ebbi 9mo agoYou might be into that. The rest of us like to analyse things honestly, especially given America is going down the route of making the same moves as history. If you don't see that, then it'd probably be better for you to go read something than to offer pithy comments on here.
- hiyer 9mo agoLet's not forget Laos and Cambodia, where unexploded munitions dumped by the US decades ago are killing and maiming people even today - https://www.humanium.org/en/unexploded-bombs-still-endanger-children-in-laos-and-cambodia/ https://www.humanium.org/en/unexploded-bombs-still-endanger-...