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This will be a standard Apple Developer code-signing certificate used in the signing and notarision process: https://support.apple.com/en-nz/guide/security/sec3

by spondyl 9mo ago

This will be a standard Apple Developer code-signing certificate used in the signing and notarision process: https://support.apple.com/en-nz/guide/security/sec3ad8e6e53/web https://support.apple.com/en-nz/guide/security/sec3ad8e6e53/... Without a signature, Gatekeeper will throw up a dialog saying "This app could contain malware" or something to that effect. If you're using other libraries, such as the Sparkle Framework (a popular macOS Objective-C(?) library for updater logic), I believe you have to sign those as well. That said, the autoupdater may have technically been a second .app bundled within the main one and trying to launch it resulted in a failure to recognise the certificate. As far as I understand, certain compilers such as Go are signed themselves and technically fiddle with created binaries in an above-board way that they pass Apple's requirements, otherwise you would have to explicitly allow them to run every time. Having signed some open-source apps myself though, I didn't realise that certificates could retroactively expire. I haven't tried but I assumed that you would just be unable to sign new versions.

fingerlocks 9mo ago
This is only applies to App Store published .app bundles. Does not apply to binaries you compile yourself or non-app binaries like cli tools
- spondyl 9mo ago
  Just to be clear, you're saying that .app bundles (and CLI tools) distributed outside of the App Store (and CLI tools) will continue to operate once the expiration date of the signing certificate has passed?
  - fingerlocks 9mo ago
    No, sorry. That's not what I'm saying. If you compile hello-world.c into a binary then it will have a placeholder (ad-hoc) signature that was signed by an "empty" key that can never expire. The Go compiler isn't doing anything special. By default all binaries are signed this way unless they were compiled with the explicit intention of App Store distribution. And the above does not apply to .app bundles.
  - lapcat 9mo ago
    Yes of course apps will continue to operate after the signing cert expires, and this is documented by Apple in several places. It would be absolutely insane if apps stopped working, because all Developer ID signing certs expire after 5 years. The valid dates for code signing certificates apply, naturally, to signing. You can't sign an app anymore with an expired certificate, but if an old app was signed with a cert that was valid at the time of signing, then the app will continue functioning forever. This issue was just a dumb screwup by Logitech. If apps stopped functioning when the signing cert expired, you'd see Mac apps dying all the time.
    - fingerlocks 9mo ago
      This only applies to distribution certificate signed apps, not true in the general sense.
      - lapcat 9mo ago
        > not true in the general sense. What does that even mean? What exactly are you saying is not true? It's not at all helpful or informative to keep saying "does not apply," as if that meant anything by itself.
        fingerlocks 9mo ago
        OP said something confusing about the Go compiler, so I was only added clarification for that one statement. You walked by half listening to a conversation, stuck your head in the room and said something tangentially related but more confusing. There are distribution and development certificates that can all be used for signing a binary. Different rules for each, and there's also auto-signed (com.apple.provenance). It's all documented on Apple's website if you want to read more about it. But I suspect you already know this and are just trying to pick a fight.
        lapcat 9mo ago
        This is a gross mischaracterization of the thread. I replied to spondyl, not to you. Then you replied to me, so if anyone was "trying to pick a fight" involving me, it was you. The crucial point is this: there are no builds that expire on macOS. Developer ID signed builds do not expire. Ad hoc signed builds do not expire. When the Developer ID code signing certificate expires, it cannot be used to sign new builds, but the old builds last forever. Build expiration is not a thing in any case. So when spondryl asked, "Just to be clear, you're saying that .app bundles (and CLI tools) distributed outside of the App Store (and CLI tools) will continue to operate once the expiration date of the signing certificate has passed?" and you responded "No, sorry. That's not what I'm saying." that was actually confusing, not what I said. The only reason the Logitech software died is that Logitech itself was doing some custom and badly designed validation above and beyond anything that macOS itself does. Your mention of App Store apps and CLI tools was itself a tangent and completely irrelevant to the issue.
deleted 9mo ago
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by spondyl 9mo ago

fingerlocks 9mo ago

This is only applies to App Store published .app bundles. Does not apply to binaries you compile yourself or non-app binaries like cli tools

spondyl 9mo ago
Just to be clear, you're saying that .app bundles (and CLI tools) distributed outside of the App Store (and CLI tools) will continue to operate once the expiration date of the signing certificate has passed?
- fingerlocks 9mo ago
  No, sorry. That's not what I'm saying. If you compile hello-world.c into a binary then it will have a placeholder (ad-hoc) signature that was signed by an "empty" key that can never expire. The Go compiler isn't doing anything special. By default all binaries are signed this way unless they were compiled with the explicit intention of App Store distribution. And the above does not apply to .app bundles.
- lapcat 9mo ago
  Yes of course apps will continue to operate after the signing cert expires, and this is documented by Apple in several places. It would be absolutely insane if apps stopped working, because all Developer ID signing certs expire after 5 years. The valid dates for code signing certificates apply, naturally, to signing. You can't sign an app anymore with an expired certificate, but if an old app was signed with a cert that was valid at the time of signing, then the app will continue functioning forever. This issue was just a dumb screwup by Logitech. If apps stopped functioning when the signing cert expired, you'd see Mac apps dying all the time.
  - fingerlocks 9mo ago
    This only applies to distribution certificate signed apps, not true in the general sense.
    - lapcat 9mo ago
      > not true in the general sense. What does that even mean? What exactly are you saying is not true? It's not at all helpful or informative to keep saying "does not apply," as if that meant anything by itself.
      - fingerlocks 9mo ago
        OP said something confusing about the Go compiler, so I was only added clarification for that one statement. You walked by half listening to a conversation, stuck your head in the room and said something tangentially related but more confusing. There are distribution and development certificates that can all be used for signing a binary. Different rules for each, and there's also auto-signed (com.apple.provenance). It's all documented on Apple's website if you want to read more about it. But I suspect you already know this and are just trying to pick a fight.
        lapcat 9mo ago
        This is a gross mischaracterization of the thread. I replied to spondyl, not to you. Then you replied to me, so if anyone was "trying to pick a fight" involving me, it was you. The crucial point is this: there are no builds that expire on macOS. Developer ID signed builds do not expire. Ad hoc signed builds do not expire. When the Developer ID code signing certificate expires, it cannot be used to sign new builds, but the old builds last forever. Build expiration is not a thing in any case. So when spondryl asked, "Just to be clear, you're saying that .app bundles (and CLI tools) distributed outside of the App Store (and CLI tools) will continue to operate once the expiration date of the signing certificate has passed?" and you responded "No, sorry. That's not what I'm saying." that was actually confusing, not what I said. The only reason the Logitech software died is that Logitech itself was doing some custom and badly designed validation above and beyond anything that macOS itself does. Your mention of App Store apps and CLI tools was itself a tangent and completely irrelevant to the issue.

deleted 9mo ago

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