10 ms·

Let's call a murder a murder

400 points by hermitcrab 10mo ago

EdwardDiego 10mo ago
Good post by Gruber on this, and kudos to him for emphasising the bravery of the citizens involved, I only hope that justice can be seen to be done, but I'm not holding my breath with Noem neck-deep in the lies already.
deleted 10mo ago
[deleted]
techblueberry 10mo ago
Just found: "The agent who shot a woman in Minneapolis on Wednesday was pulled about 100 yards by a car last year while firing a stun gun at the driver." So, this is a trend.
- DustinEchoes 10mo ago
  Yeah, he broke open the rear window and tried to unlock the door.
  - cryptochamorro 10mo ago
    [flagged]
    - DustinEchoes 10mo ago
      I’m talking about the incident last year
      - cryptochamorro 10mo ago
        Ah okay! My mistake.
- duxup 10mo ago
  Considering the behavior of ICE, it seems like they hired some folks just desperate to find legal cover to shoot someone. There are numerous videos of them casually drawing their weapons on protesters. https://www.reddit.com/r/ICE_Raids/comments/1q7u4kz/ice_agen https://www.reddit.com/r/ICE_Raids/comments/1q7u4kz/ice_agen... https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesota/comments/1q7y43s/cbp_poin https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesota/comments/1q7y43s/cbp_poin...
  - eps 10mo ago
    The whole MO of ICE is that of intimidation. That's really their raison de être in the agency's current format. They are effectively a paramilitary enforcing the agenda. Parallels with the 1930s Germany are really explicitly uncanny.
  - Gibbon1 10mo ago
    My dad has a story from the late fifty's. He was at a party at his cousins house in Stockton. And the cousins brother in law had just been hired as a country sheriff and was boasting about how he was looking forward to killing his first nagger. These kind of people exist.
  - tombert 10mo ago
    I feel like this is a problem that is going to be inherent to any position of power that allows people to use weapons; you very heavily selection-bias towards people want power and to use weapons, especially if the people who do abuse their position of violence are consistently allowed to do it with impunity. Not saying that every person in law enforcement is bad, obviously; there are plenty of cops and people in the military [1] that are responsible with their weapons and do genuinely want to help people, but if you create an institution where people don't have to pay the consequences for their actions, then of course you're going to attract people who want to commit those actions. The Catholic Church with their abusive priests is one of the most obvious examples. They create a situation where an adult male can be surrounded by kids unsupervised, not be married, and when abuse does happen it is covered up and the priest is moved somewhere else. Combined with the fact that they're paid shit, there's going to be a very strong selection bias of pedophiles. [1] and who knows, maybe even ICE!
- _DeadFred_ 10mo ago
  His failure to do his job correctly multiple times isn't justification for the murder of a 37 year old mother and the orphaning of her child. Most sane government agencies would make sure he knew and started following the required protocol so that he would be safe/competent the next time before putting him back on the street. Yet he again failed to do his job and follow protocol, and stood in front of a vehicle. Seems like repeat government/leadership/agent failure. The quote is 'We live in a world where trained cops can panic and act on impulse, but untrained civilians must remain calm with a gun in their face.'. Random americans in unusual situations can't be expected to not stress/freak out, that is realistic human nature. That is why officers are trained and required as part of their job to never place themselves in front of vehicles. It is on the trained officers, initiating the situation and experienced with it, to keep things under control. That is literally their job. The obligation shouldn't be on a mom that just dropped her kids at school that isn't the 'trained professional' in the scenario.
  - techblueberry 10mo ago
    Agreed! Why wasn’t he removed from duty when he fucked up the first time! Like I said, it’s now a trend the the makes bad decisions when cars are present.
  - DerArzt 10mo ago
    If my buddies' ex (a hair dresser) is required to have more schooling and education than US law enforcement officers, I feel it's safe to say that none of these officers are "trained".
- ndsipa_pomu 10mo ago
  It doesn't make any sense to me why an agent would deliberately put themselves at the front of a car if they'd previously been in such an incident (presumably they weren't hurt by the previous incident). Anyone with a functioning brain would surely have much better awareness of their positioning and should be following the guidance to approach from the side. Also, I thought there was very clear guidance about not discharging guns towards unarmed drivers as it doesn't tend to stop them and is likely to result in the vehicle being accelerated into someone/something.
  - mindslight 10mo ago
    > why an agent would deliberately put themselves at the front of a car if they'd previously been in such an incident One reason would be that after the first time he fucked around and found out with a vehicle, he resolved to shoot the driver the next time. This would explain why he tried to box in the metal car with his squishy body while keeping an exit strategy - being positioned at the right place to claim he was worried about being hit without actually getting hit. It would also mean this incident was premeditated murder.
solid_fuel 10mo ago
The nature of our current political crisis is changing by the minute, and with every fascist act this administration emboldens the next wave of left wing opposition. The moderate position for future liberal candidates is now the full dissolution of ICE. The more radical position - which is rapidly gaining support - is the arrest and prosecution of everyone involved in this administration. Starting with the president but including his cabinet and the oligarchs who spent the last year fomenting corruption and enriching themselves.
- jaybrendansmith 10mo ago
  I'm not sure that isn't the moderate position. Every one of them are certified criminals. They all need to stand trial. I pledge to do everything in my power to ensure that they do. So say we all.
  - culi 10mo ago
    See also the mind-boggling sign-on bonuses they get. They know ICE being the 8th most funded army in the world can't last forever. The left wasn't allowed to do a wealth transfer from rich to poor so instead the right did a massive wealth transfer from all of us to the most racist of us.
- soco 10mo ago
  But is what you have now "right" wing? Or just oligarchy of no real wing? I'm not sure that ideology has a real role in what they actually do (looking beyond words), unless "I do what I please" is an ideology...
- culi 10mo ago
  ICE was only created in 2003. We had a time before ICE and we need to go back to it
lovich 10mo ago
I feel no shame in anything I felt about Charlie Kirk’s death after seeing their response to this, and that looks like it was a team kill from conservatives. One side of the political aisle in this country is screaming about how violent the other side is, while they are committing murder and telling us that our eyes are lying to us. Gonna be a fun decade ahead
- cryptochamorro 10mo ago
  How is this situation even remotely similar to Charlie Kirk’s assassination other than a death occurred?
  - lovich 10mo ago
    Same team committing the violence and using it as an excuse to enforce even more authoritarian efforts on people like me, before the bodies are even cold
    - Jensson 10mo ago
      [flagged]
      - Natfan 10mo ago
        his roommate wasn't male
        culi 10mo ago
        Jensson is a blatant transphobe. Call a spade a spade
        Natfan 10mo ago
        i don't wanna get [flagged] for being uncivil, and i'm unsure on this website's transphobia policies
renewiltord 10mo ago
I’ll just say that I fully expect American police to shoot people in that situation. Not because it’s justified but because their whole deal is: “Sir, stop resisting. I gave you a lawful order” “Sir, sir, BANG BANG” “I feared for my life” It’s like a pitbull, right? It’s right there most of the time. Then one day it eats a baby. But you kind of knew it had baby eating ready to go. It’s sitting there ready to eat babies. Just a question of when. Then the baby gets eaten and you’re upset. But most people just stay away from the baby eater. One day you’re walking down the street and your baby gets eaten. Justifiable? No. Your fault? Also no. But there’s baby eaters out there. Such is life.
- rozap 10mo ago
  "she was asking for it" but with murder. Cool argument. Embarrassing what level of discourse this site has fallen to.
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 10mo ago
    > Embarrassing what level of discourse this site has fallen to. Indeed. > Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. > "she was asking for it" Another way to, er interpret their comment could be, "This tragic outcome was predictable." It does not blame the victim, it is an observation.
- iJohnDoe 10mo ago
  You had me until, “Such as life.” The point here is there is no reason life should be this way and that is why people have a problem with it. Sadly, agreed, most should expect to get shot to death by police in any given situation. Most become a police officer with the sole purpose of being able to shoot someone and they are continuously looking for any opportunity to do so. They are literally a junkie waiting to get their fix. Sadly, agreed, pitbulls should not be kept as pets and certainly not when children are present. Most people can’t control their pets, let alone a pitbull. Also, pitbull owners know they are choosing a pitbull for the sole purpose of proving others wrong, or the opportunity to blame someone else if their pitbull attacks someone. Weirdly like police.
KittenInABox 10mo ago
Inquiry, since I know anti immigrant sentiment is on the rise in other countries. How are other countries increasing their enforcement of their immigration laws? Are there also chaotic situations where their immigration enforcers are shooting people in cars? Are there better ways for rising anti-immigrant sentiment to result in stricter enforcement with less violence?
- soco 10mo ago
  Now that you're mentioning, I'm surprised that, even though in some corners anti-immigrant parties rose to governing, they are only doing legislation and stricter enforcing immigration and border protection rules - not appreciated by everybody of course but somehow understandable where they're coming from. Might be somebody else knows more, or has seen more, but my one data point is: no nothing like that was ever hinted from what I can tell. And I'm appalled.
- captn3m0 10mo ago
  India has been deporting immigrants to Bangladesh/Myanmar and this includes Indian Citizens, because there is no due process being followed and court orders are being regularly ignored. https://www.hrw.org/news/2025/07/23/india-hundreds-of-muslims-unlawfully-expelled-to-bangladesh https://www.hrw.org/news/2025/07/23/india-hundreds-of-muslim... > authorities forced another 40 Rohingya refugees into the sea near Myanmar, giving them life jackets and making them swim to shore > the police raided his home, seized his mobile phone, and tore up his identity documents, which were proof of his (Indian) citizenship. They then flew him in a BSF plane (…) Sheikh said he was forced to cross into Bangladesh with eight others.
  - square_usual 10mo ago
    I remember threads about this on HN back when the CAA Bill first dropped - you saw much of the same concern trolling back then, as if nobody could see what the real intent behind it was.
- culebron21 10mo ago
  I'm from Russia. There's no such special department there, nor police shoots at anyone in a car. They do chase, then after some minutes, if nothing works, shoot at tires. There's no rule, nor drilling to shoot then think, nor to take a gun ASAP. There's no qualified immunity for police either. (Right-wing Russians, even die-hard Putin's supporters, in fact admire this side of the American police -- like "you don't stare at a policeman in America", they say.) The whole issue of detainees being shot -- that's not a problem there at all. There is one department that's similar to ICE, the riot police called Rosgvardia (Russian Guard), which is anti-mass-protest force. When it was created, they hired all the normal police drop-outs, the worst. But they only carry batons. The real issue with human rights in Russia is in courts and law application, and inside prisons, out of public eye.
tombert 10mo ago
It's almost like giving a nearly-completely-unregulated quasi-military force unlimited funding, more weapons than God, and no clear goals other than "deport more people" is actually a really bad idea. People voted for this. Oh but hey, we at least made sure to pretend to save money by firing and then rapidly rehiring a lot of the workforce.
- cmxch 10mo ago
  If we give money to groups that aid and support the protection of illegal aliens, no sense in not outspending them.
  - qotgalaxy 10mo ago
    [dead]
  - estimator7292 10mo ago
    You're suggesting a grassroots movement to outspend the US government, one of the wealthiest entities on the planet
  - metadope 10mo ago
    Here you appear to be using "illegal aliens" as a synonym for "immigrants". Groups that aid and support immigrants are doing a service that benefits America and all Americans; we should give them money so they can continue to help. Immigration is of benefit to most nations; we are no different. But if and when you call immigrants illegal aliens, you're removing an important distinction and distorting reality. Have you ever seen an immigration application? Ever examined the regulations that legal immigrants must navigate? Legal immigration is a quagmire, but some would rather turn away from the swamp rather than drain it; some would like to pretend that immigration is the same thing as invasion, to justify the lazy approach that groups everyone together in an alien blur.
    - chaostheory 10mo ago
      Apparently, a lot of people like cmxch aren’t familiar with the age depopulation bomb, where senior citizens start outnumbering everyone else like in Japan. We need immigration to keep economy healthy
bigyabai 10mo ago
Let's call Google, Microsoft and Apple accessories to extrajudicial martial law. No? We still like those guys? Gruber needs an identity that isn't conjoined at the hip with fascist enablers. His insecurity is palpable.
vdupras 10mo ago
And it's flagged, of course. Will somebody vouch for this? I know what you're thinking. This doesn't encourage curiosity! This is politics! Same old, same old. HN! Come on, how myopic must you be to not see that a working democracy is a condition sine qua non of your dear curiosity. You see what's happening in Iran, right? Well, they don't! Put your glasses on, HN, you're not seeing shit.
- solid_fuel 10mo ago
  So many people here want to bury their heads in the sand, like that will protect them. It's disgraceful to see people calling themselves "hackers" while they support the feds with no reservations or critical thought.
  - deleted 10mo ago
    [deleted]
  - lovich 10mo ago
    A good number of people on this site don’t mind the boot as long as they are wearing it. It’s not particularly rare for groups of software engineers to have American style libertarians amongst them
    - jauntywundrkind 10mo ago
      I really want an HN overlay where we can act in public. The rank cowardice here is so low, these dogs hiding and cloaking the truth again and again, putting the veil over the truth. Being able to post publicly what we are up to, being able to see more directly, not have these obfuscating hiding folks hiding in their anonymity on the layer feels necessary. What a sad pathetic foe humanity faces. It's so sad than HN allows a couple people to destroy our ability to understand and see the world.
      - cindyllm 10mo ago
        [dead]
FpUser 10mo ago
At one point Orange was talking about shithole countries.
computerthings 10mo ago
[dead]
esseph 10mo ago
Site full of cowards. The stance this site has taken while things like this happen outside the very doors is shameful.
- zahlman 10mo ago
  > The stance this site has taken What are you even referring to?
tastyface 10mo ago
What I find even more horrifying than the murder is the response from people in power. Lying. Calling the victim a terrorist. Claiming she deserved it. Expressing unequivocal support for the killer. Threatening more of the same for the opposition. Posting fucking memes! Not even a hint of sympathy anywhere to be seen. These people are animals. They should be in chains in front of a tribunal, not running the country. And they dare call themselves Christians?
- tim333 10mo ago
  I'm not sure this will play well for them politically. A fair bit of what got Trump elected was saying they'd protect ordinary Americans from immigrant criminals. Now they have footage of a white middle class mum in an suv, pretty much their median voter, being shot dead by their thugs and saying don't believe you eyes and clear video evidence, she tried to run an officer over when she obviously didn't.
  - lostmsu 10mo ago
    [flagged]
    - tim333 10mo ago
      I've lost the link to the main one I was thinking of but there are some pictures here https://x.com/GregTSargent/status/2009319825554985218 https://x.com/GregTSargent/status/2009319825554985218 It's not quite as clear cut as I thought as the car maybe nudged the shooter but the driver had definitely turned the steering away from him and was trying to miss him and get away. Also the car's direction didn't change after the shots were fired and it didn't come close to running over the shooter. The WaPo article seems quite good https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2026/01/08/video-ice-shooting-minneapolis/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2026/01/08/vid...
      - lostmsu 10mo ago
        There's a frame in the YouTube video I linked where the officer is right in front of the car, the car wheel is still turned toward the driver window (so if no steering is done it would run over the officer, moreover it is directed to where the officer ends up in the end), and the front wheels with a skid starts pulling the car forward in that direction. In fact, the car goes toward the officer for about 15 frames of the video and only visibly changes direction for 1 or 2 frames just before the shot (mind you that's less than 100ms at 30fps), after the gun is pulled out and pointed straight at the window. I would refrain from making any judgment on that because I don't know the intricacies of the law, but it is certainly not "clear" as a lot of people here seem to claim. I suspect most never watched the video in detail or interpreted it with hindsight.
lma21 10mo ago
Why is this flagged??
- addandsubtract 10mo ago
  It'S PoLiTiCaL
  - Atreiden 10mo ago
    As self-proclaimed hackers who are part of a community whose core values include curiosity and critical thinking, we do ourselves, and the world, a massive disservice by closing our eyes and ears to important information just because it's political in nature. Hacker culture and fascism are antithetical, and we should all be acutely aware when the current regime moves towards violence to squash dissent.
    - y0eswddl 10mo ago
      i know the site moniker is "hacker news" but the tech industry at large is the furthest thing from being anything resembling a collective of hackers...
      - bitxbitxbitcoin 10mo ago
        The actual technical thought leaders aren’t necessarily representative of the tech industry at large. Id like to think at least some with a hacker ethos have made it to decision making positions - and hacker news is a spot for em to congregate.
    - zx0r2 10mo ago
      the owners of this site support the current regime
    - mickle00 10mo ago
      completely 100% agree
    - scarecrowbob 10mo ago
ZeroGravitas 10mo ago
The women he is praising for filming is, according to the current government, committing illegal violence against the ICE agents. https://reason.com/2026/01/08/you-have-the-right-to-record-ice/ https://reason.com/2026/01/08/you-have-the-right-to-record-i... > The Trump Administration Says It's Illegal To Record Videos of ICE. Here's What the Law Says. > Violence is anything that threatens them and their safety, so it is doxing them, it's videotaping them where they're at when they're out on operations," Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem said. So he is right to think she might have been shot for doing this. edit: note that's a libertarian source. They've always had a strain of civil libertarians on that publication but the comments on the site reveal a lot of libertarians now think it's a good thing that white liberal women are being shot.
- throwawayqqq11 10mo ago
  At that point, its not libertarian anymore, its identitarian. The victim was from an outgroup so anything goes, including your values around liberty out the window. Identity politics is at the core of conservativism and what ever is good for, or part of your group or yourself is just by nature and good for society. This tribalistic bias skews your reasoning, because we apes have evolved to sustain our own group or ourself. As social animals, we have externalized our self-preservative drive onto the tribe we live in and this bias drives libertarians to these comments and why there is such a significant overlap between religion, racists (group oriented) but also libertarians (individual oriented), etc. The big political divide is between people who are more vulnerable to such identity based biases and people who are lesser so.
- 4gotunameagain 10mo ago
  And your point is ? Because someone is filming, it is okay for a federal agent to execute their partner ? I'm not sure I understand.
  - Tohsig 10mo ago
    No, they're supporting Gruber's statement that the woman filming was putting herself in very real danger by filming the shooting and then continuing to film for several minutes after.
cmxch 10mo ago
[flagged]
- Hamuko 10mo ago
  Was the guy not jaywalking? Or was there another "murder" being committed?
- superb_dev 10mo ago
  Please look at the second image in this article[0]. It shows each frame of the video where a shot was fired. Her tires were pointed away when the first shot was fired and the second two shots were from the side of the vehicle. She was clearly trying to leave, she was not trying to hit anyone. [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2026/01/08/video-ice-shooting-minneapolis/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2026/01/08/vid...
  - cmxch 10mo ago
    [flagged]
    - 4gotunameagain 10mo ago
      Okay, so it is indeed tribal parrotism. My question has been answered. Unfortunately..
- 4gotunameagain 10mo ago
  You really think so, or is this some tribal adherence to your tribe ? I am not american, I have no skin in the game. But to me, the ICE agents were never really threatened. I would not be afraid for my life if I were in this situation. What I do understand, is the panic a person could have felt if masked ICE agents with weapons came their way. I do not understand why it has to be a partizan issue. What I see, is a federal agent murdering an innocent US citizen. How is this not a bad thing for both sides ? I am honestly trying to understand.
- FpUser 10mo ago
  Outright lie. Video is available and was dissected frame by frame. There was no attempt to murder by the driver. There was a psychotic SOB murderer from ICE.
metalman 10mo ago
this is so hard for me, I have been in several situations where guns have been drawn, including by police(for no reason), and others where guns have been fired as intimidation, and "accidental" discharges and have always reacted instinctivly and yelled at and stood up to idiots and there guns, watching this video and the one where a civilian disarms one of the attackers on bondi beach, vividly shows the monsters and people who will stand up and fight or are just caught up in something they dont understand, but that the person in Miniapolis who filmed this, stood there and bore witness while this unfolded is something I could never have imagined, the ones at the top, orchestrating these public executions, should fear the implacable bravery of those who will stand firm far more than a reactionary like me. Also, another person has documented ICE blocking an MD from assisting the murder victim, who is 20' away dieing.
cmxch 10mo ago
[flagged]
- QuantumGood 10mo ago
  As Wikipedia points out "Footage from three camera angles indicates Good’s vehicle is turning past and away from the agent, not accelerating toward him, when he fires three shots through the windshield, killing her as she drives by." Recently home doorbell video released also shows the same thing from a fourth angle. There are several videos, so "the video" is unhelpful. The NYT breakdown of several videos, or the Reddit synchronization of several videos show he was NOT hit, and seem to show she backed up partly to avoid him walking in front of her car (after dropping her youngest of three children off at school, with her dog in the car, just after waving other cars around her.)
  - cmxch 10mo ago
    [flagged]
  - QuantumGood 10mo ago
    A fifth angle: Video from the shooter's handheld camera synchronized with the best other video: https://bsky.app/profile/ragnarokx.bsky.social/post/3mbz7pt4wrs2d https://bsky.app/profile/ragnarokx.bsky.social/post/3mbz7pt4...
- kccoder 10mo ago
  Completely incorrect. You should look at the NYT frame by frame breakdown of the shooting for a better understanding of what happened.
  - cmxch 10mo ago
    [flagged]
- allturtles 10mo ago
  > woman in the Missouri-plated Honda. Why this fixation among conservatives on the out-of-state plates? Desire to pin unrest on "outside agitators" a la Ghorman? [1] In fact the woman lived in Minneapolis, if that matters to you for some reason. [2] [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messenger_(Andor) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messenger_(Andor) [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Ren%C3%A9e_Good#Ren%C3%A9e_Good https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Ren%C3%A9e_Good#Ren...
bananabiscuit 10mo ago
I don’t think this is as clear cut as anyone on either side is claiming. Looking [1], it does appear that Renee attempted to run the car right into the ICE officer, the wheels were still pointing slightly left, and the officer was still in front of the car. Also in [2] you can see that she was looking directly at the officer during this initial acceleration attempt. The only thing that saved the officer in that initial attempt was the loss of traction due to the icy road. After that, indeed the wheels were pointing away from the officer and arguably there was no more danger to him, but after the clear attempt to hit him, you cannot realistically expect the officer, in a split second, to re-evaluate if her intentions to hurt anybody changed or not. At this point his life was already threatened. He doesn’t know what she is doing and waiting to find out could mean that he is dead. [1] https://x.com/CollinRugg/status/2008984798271094791 https://x.com/CollinRugg/status/2008984798271094791 [2] https://x.com/nicksortor/status/2009683575298211979 https://x.com/nicksortor/status/2009683575298211979
- deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]
- throwawayqqq11 10mo ago
  It gets quite clear, when you change the setup a little bit. 1) Make the PO a regular human without a gun and you can imagine, that any normal person would have made just a quick sidestep to avoid collision, like most of us have experienced in person too. Use of force was totally unjustified, esp. when you combine it with: 2) Change the intetion of the driver to really want to harm the person ~2m in front of the car. Cop get trained, that you should not use your gun on close encounters with knives, bc the short distance <5m will give you not enogh time to stop a knive attacker reliably. If you stand that close infront of a car, a short but strong tab of the pedal would have been enough to get you, no matter how fast you draw your gun or how good your aim is. To me, it is clear that she never ment to hit anybody, the acceleration does not indicate it. It is _very_ obvious. 2/3 shots hit the side of the car and the front wheel _never_ pointed at the PO.
  - bananabiscuit 10mo ago
    the front wheel never pointed at the PO. My whole point is that this isn’t true. Look at the first video I linked, in the first couple of seconds, the cop is in front of the bumper, the cars wheels are still pointing slightly to the left, on their way to center, as she guns the engine. The loss of traction on the icy road is the only reason the PO had a chance to jump out of the way (but apparently by the NYT analysis, he might have been still hit). And at this point he is correct to think the driver is dangerous and might harm somebody.
hairofadog 10mo ago
They have released a version of the masked agent's bodycam. Seems to be another Rorschach test: they released it because they think it's exculpatory, but to my eyes it's even worse. He's engaged in a petty argument with the driver, tries to block her car with his body as she drives away, shoots her, then says "fuckin' bitch!" after he's killed her. https://bsky.app/profile/thetnholler.bsky.social/post/3mbz3va3en22e https://bsky.app/profile/thetnholler.bsky.social/post/3mbz3v...
- empath75 10mo ago
  Her last words to him are "I'm not mad at you"
  - deleted 10mo ago
    [deleted]
- metaphysicalyes 10mo ago
  Very convenient because right around the moments of shooting the video goes blank and the viewer can confirm the below preconceived notions: 1. The masked gunman was in grave danger when in fact he had stepped aside. 2. The car accelerated rapidly before the shots instead of after the driver was in immeasurable agony. 3. All three shots by masked gunman were in self defense. Not that the next two shots were in the driver's face from side window while standing well clear of the vehicle.
  - zahlman 10mo ago
    All of this happens in a split second. It's simply not possible, in the evidenced time frame, to fire one shot in self defense and then realign and fire two more with murderous intent. It is also not at all plausible that the position of the two individuals could have changed that much in between the shots. It's also very clear in other video that the officer has been struck and his balance severely disturbed; it takes considerable time for him to recover and he has very clearly fired all three shots before he has properly stood up. In short, other video evidence clearly rules out any possibility that "he had stepped aside". And we can see the relative timing of when the SUV's wheels start to spin, too, even in the video from behind the SUV where Good is obscured from view by the other officer.
cmxch 10mo ago
[flagged]
- throwaway-11-1 10mo ago
  [flagged]
- praptak 10mo ago
  He shot her multiple times through the driver's window. How can anyone claim it's self defense?
- metaphysicalyes 10mo ago
  > If anything, it indicts Gruber for wanting to bandwagon I am all for bandwagoning if it makes a dent in spread of fascism. I am all for bandwagoning behind keeping mothers alive. I am all for bandwagoning for the right to human dignity. > She accelerated against the officer, hit them, he defended himself By that standard all drivers in Manhattan will be dead within couple of months. Standing in front of a car which is clearly trying to move and on contact shooting two times from the side window is not the cheat code to kill you think it is. Why do you feel the need to make disingenuous claims?
aussieguy1234 10mo ago
ICE are the modern day equivalent of Nazi Brownshirts/storm troopers, who went around rounding up and harassing minorities in the early days of Nazi Germany. They're now able to kill at will and call it "self defence".
tda 10mo ago
The sharpest (and scariest) analysis I've encountered is this: the administration governs as though no government will ever follow. The blanket pardons for January 6th insurrectionists, the revocation of Secret Service protection for political enemies—these are not the actions of someone who expects to face accountability from a future administration. And that's precisely the point. Trump is not governing recklessly; he is governing with a specific end in mind: to be president for the rest of his life. That project requires dismantling the judiciary, hollowing out independent institutions, muzzling the press, and having his own goon squad. By all appearances, he is on schedule.
- luke5441 10mo ago
  My baseline (as an outside observer) is still that they are too stupid and uncoordinated to do a facist take-over. But that a significant possibility even exists that there will be a facist take-over is awful. (The main ingredient for a facist take-over is control over the military and media and he is not creating many loyalists in either)
  - rozap 10mo ago
    Mussolini was not the brightest bulb in the tanning bed, but it worked for him.
    - luke5441 10mo ago
      He served in the military, though. Idk if he obviously was not loyal to anyone like Trump is, I'd guess not.
- defrost 10mo ago
  If you're a fan of sharp scary analysis, try Maduro in Minneapolis (Murderous Lies) by Timothy Snyder - https://snyder.substack.com/p/maduro-in-minneapolis https://snyder.substack.com/p/maduro-in-minneapolis The abduction of Maduro was not about naming his crimes, but about ignoring them. The worst thing that Maduro did is just what Trump is beginning to do: killing civilians and blaming them for their own deaths. After Minneapolis, Maduro’s lies are being repeated: in American English, by American authorities. The thousands of extrajudicial killings in Maduro’s Venezuela were carried out by organized death squads. These actions were described as defensive. The Maduro regime claimed that the people they murdered were resisting government authority, and that the men who pulled the trigger had been provoked by those whom they murdered. Minneapolis has just witnessed an extrajudicial killing, at the hands of ICE, which looks more and more like a presidential paramilitary organization. The action was, horribly, excused by the president, the vice-president, and the director of homeland security, using the same lies as those told by Maduro’s Venezuelan regime. The victim was resisting government authority, they said. The man who pulled the trigger had been provoked, they said. It was not the killer who was a terrorist. It was the mom who had just dropped off one of her six-year-old at school.
fzeroracer 10mo ago
I feel like posting this up top for context [1]. This is an example of someone actually getting hit by a car, from an ICE agent driving with clear intent to harm someone while laughing about it. I would assume that everyone who believes Renee was committing vehicular assault would agree that this is also a case of vehicular assault, and the agent in question should be charged with attempted murder. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/ICE_Watch/comments/1pjye82/ice_agents_in_minneapolis_mn_hit_a_community/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ICE_Watch/comments/1pjye82/ice_agen...
- iugtmkbdfil834 10mo ago
  The more I see of those videos, the more I am starting to understand previous generations' contempt for hippies. The difference is hippies actually believed in something.
  - fzeroracer 10mo ago
    If you see these kind of things and immediately jump to a conclusion like this then I'm going to have to agree with SpicyLemonZest in their earlier discussions with you. I hope you stay as the 'right citizen' per your own argument lest the boot comes for you too.
    - iugtmkbdfil834 10mo ago
      If you actually look at that conversation then you know it is not exactly immediately, but based on evidence as it trickles down. I personally think your 'side' is missing forest for the trees. Since that is the case, allow me to spell it out for you. Antics of middleaged, overindulged woman, who was so comfortable that they thought she was virtually untouchable have gone mainstream. Do I get to stop ATF or IRS from performing their operations? No? Why is ICE different then? Because you don't agree with them? So, the choice is now to either normalize those antics, normalize excessive police force or some sort of reasonable middle ground. But what do I get? Insults and thinly veiled threats that once dems get into power, I will rue the day. Get off your high horse and realize that you are encouraging civil war for a retard, who thought they could do whatever they want and face no consequences. Welcome to the real world.
ndsipa_pomu 10mo ago
Does the administration's interpretation of this incident (i.e. self-defense) mean that it is now okay to fire at drivers that may (or may not) be about to drive too close to you?
- hairofadog 10mo ago
  As you migth expect, their position is contradictory, working in their favor either way. They have passed bills making it legal to run over people as long as those people aren't members of the tribe: G.O.P. Bills Target Protesters (and Absolve Motorists Who Hit Them) https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/21/us/politics/republican-anti-protest-laws.html?unlocked_article_code=1.DVA.g59t.DD8SWdDzvs1r&smid=url-share https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/21/us/politics/republican-an... "Stand your ground" laws often work the same way: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/is-there-racial-bias-in-stand-your-ground-laws/ https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/is-there-racial-b...
ndsipa_pomu 10mo ago
Something that isn't being addressed is why/how the ICE agents prevented medical treatment for the victim which may or may not have been life-saving. That seems like a level beyond war-crimes (e.g. sides usually agree to allow medical personnel access to wounded soldiers).

400 points by hermitcrab 10mo ago

Good post by Gruber on this, and kudos to him for emphasising the bravery of the citizens involved, I only hope that justice can be seen to be done, but I'm not holding my breath with Noem neck-deep in the lies already.

deleted 10mo ago

[deleted]

techblueberry 10mo ago

Just found: "The agent who shot a woman in Minneapolis on Wednesday was pulled about 100 yards by a car last year while firing a stun gun at the driver." So, this is a trend.

DustinEchoes 10mo ago
Yeah, he broke open the rear window and tried to unlock the door.
- cryptochamorro 10mo ago
  [flagged]
  - DustinEchoes 10mo ago
    I’m talking about the incident last year
    - cryptochamorro 10mo ago
      Ah okay! My mistake.
duxup 10mo ago
Considering the behavior of ICE, it seems like they hired some folks just desperate to find legal cover to shoot someone. There are numerous videos of them casually drawing their weapons on protesters. https://www.reddit.com/r/ICE_Raids/comments/1q7u4kz/ice_agen https://www.reddit.com/r/ICE_Raids/comments/1q7u4kz/ice_agen... https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesota/comments/1q7y43s/cbp_poin https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesota/comments/1q7y43s/cbp_poin...
- eps 10mo ago
  The whole MO of ICE is that of intimidation. That's really their raison de être in the agency's current format. They are effectively a paramilitary enforcing the agenda. Parallels with the 1930s Germany are really explicitly uncanny.
- Gibbon1 10mo ago
  My dad has a story from the late fifty's. He was at a party at his cousins house in Stockton. And the cousins brother in law had just been hired as a country sheriff and was boasting about how he was looking forward to killing his first nagger. These kind of people exist.
- tombert 10mo ago
  I feel like this is a problem that is going to be inherent to any position of power that allows people to use weapons; you very heavily selection-bias towards people want power and to use weapons, especially if the people who do abuse their position of violence are consistently allowed to do it with impunity. Not saying that every person in law enforcement is bad, obviously; there are plenty of cops and people in the military [1] that are responsible with their weapons and do genuinely want to help people, but if you create an institution where people don't have to pay the consequences for their actions, then of course you're going to attract people who want to commit those actions. The Catholic Church with their abusive priests is one of the most obvious examples. They create a situation where an adult male can be surrounded by kids unsupervised, not be married, and when abuse does happen it is covered up and the priest is moved somewhere else. Combined with the fact that they're paid shit, there's going to be a very strong selection bias of pedophiles. [1] and who knows, maybe even ICE!
_DeadFred_ 10mo ago
His failure to do his job correctly multiple times isn't justification for the murder of a 37 year old mother and the orphaning of her child. Most sane government agencies would make sure he knew and started following the required protocol so that he would be safe/competent the next time before putting him back on the street. Yet he again failed to do his job and follow protocol, and stood in front of a vehicle. Seems like repeat government/leadership/agent failure. The quote is 'We live in a world where trained cops can panic and act on impulse, but untrained civilians must remain calm with a gun in their face.'. Random americans in unusual situations can't be expected to not stress/freak out, that is realistic human nature. That is why officers are trained and required as part of their job to never place themselves in front of vehicles. It is on the trained officers, initiating the situation and experienced with it, to keep things under control. That is literally their job. The obligation shouldn't be on a mom that just dropped her kids at school that isn't the 'trained professional' in the scenario.
- techblueberry 10mo ago
  Agreed! Why wasn’t he removed from duty when he fucked up the first time! Like I said, it’s now a trend the the makes bad decisions when cars are present.
- DerArzt 10mo ago
  If my buddies' ex (a hair dresser) is required to have more schooling and education than US law enforcement officers, I feel it's safe to say that none of these officers are "trained".
ndsipa_pomu 10mo ago
It doesn't make any sense to me why an agent would deliberately put themselves at the front of a car if they'd previously been in such an incident (presumably they weren't hurt by the previous incident). Anyone with a functioning brain would surely have much better awareness of their positioning and should be following the guidance to approach from the side. Also, I thought there was very clear guidance about not discharging guns towards unarmed drivers as it doesn't tend to stop them and is likely to result in the vehicle being accelerated into someone/something.
- mindslight 10mo ago
  > why an agent would deliberately put themselves at the front of a car if they'd previously been in such an incident One reason would be that after the first time he fucked around and found out with a vehicle, he resolved to shoot the driver the next time. This would explain why he tried to box in the metal car with his squishy body while keeping an exit strategy - being positioned at the right place to claim he was worried about being hit without actually getting hit. It would also mean this incident was premeditated murder.

solid_fuel 10mo ago

The nature of our current political crisis is changing by the minute, and with every fascist act this administration emboldens the next wave of left wing opposition. The moderate position for future liberal candidates is now the full dissolution of ICE. The more radical position - which is rapidly gaining support - is the arrest and prosecution of everyone involved in this administration. Starting with the president but including his cabinet and the oligarchs who spent the last year fomenting corruption and enriching themselves.

jaybrendansmith 10mo ago
I'm not sure that isn't the moderate position. Every one of them are certified criminals. They all need to stand trial. I pledge to do everything in my power to ensure that they do. So say we all.
- culi 10mo ago
  See also the mind-boggling sign-on bonuses they get. They know ICE being the 8th most funded army in the world can't last forever. The left wasn't allowed to do a wealth transfer from rich to poor so instead the right did a massive wealth transfer from all of us to the most racist of us.
soco 10mo ago
But is what you have now "right" wing? Or just oligarchy of no real wing? I'm not sure that ideology has a real role in what they actually do (looking beyond words), unless "I do what I please" is an ideology...
culi 10mo ago
ICE was only created in 2003. We had a time before ICE and we need to go back to it

lovich 10mo ago

I feel no shame in anything I felt about Charlie Kirk’s death after seeing their response to this, and that looks like it was a team kill from conservatives. One side of the political aisle in this country is screaming about how violent the other side is, while they are committing murder and telling us that our eyes are lying to us. Gonna be a fun decade ahead

cryptochamorro 10mo ago
How is this situation even remotely similar to Charlie Kirk’s assassination other than a death occurred?
- lovich 10mo ago
  Same team committing the violence and using it as an excuse to enforce even more authoritarian efforts on people like me, before the bodies are even cold
  - Jensson 10mo ago
    [flagged]
    - Natfan 10mo ago
      his roommate wasn't male
      - culi 10mo ago
        Jensson is a blatant transphobe. Call a spade a spade
        Natfan 10mo ago
        i don't wanna get [flagged] for being uncivil, and i'm unsure on this website's transphobia policies

renewiltord 10mo ago

I’ll just say that I fully expect American police to shoot people in that situation. Not because it’s justified but because their whole deal is: “Sir, stop resisting. I gave you a lawful order” “Sir, sir, BANG BANG” “I feared for my life” It’s like a pitbull, right? It’s right there most of the time. Then one day it eats a baby. But you kind of knew it had baby eating ready to go. It’s sitting there ready to eat babies. Just a question of when. Then the baby gets eaten and you’re upset. But most people just stay away from the baby eater. One day you’re walking down the street and your baby gets eaten. Justifiable? No. Your fault? Also no. But there’s baby eaters out there. Such is life.

rozap 10mo ago
"she was asking for it" but with murder. Cool argument. Embarrassing what level of discourse this site has fallen to.
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 10mo ago
  > Embarrassing what level of discourse this site has fallen to. Indeed. > Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. > "she was asking for it" Another way to, er interpret their comment could be, "This tragic outcome was predictable." It does not blame the victim, it is an observation.
iJohnDoe 10mo ago
You had me until, “Such as life.” The point here is there is no reason life should be this way and that is why people have a problem with it. Sadly, agreed, most should expect to get shot to death by police in any given situation. Most become a police officer with the sole purpose of being able to shoot someone and they are continuously looking for any opportunity to do so. They are literally a junkie waiting to get their fix. Sadly, agreed, pitbulls should not be kept as pets and certainly not when children are present. Most people can’t control their pets, let alone a pitbull. Also, pitbull owners know they are choosing a pitbull for the sole purpose of proving others wrong, or the opportunity to blame someone else if their pitbull attacks someone. Weirdly like police.

KittenInABox 10mo ago

Inquiry, since I know anti immigrant sentiment is on the rise in other countries. How are other countries increasing their enforcement of their immigration laws? Are there also chaotic situations where their immigration enforcers are shooting people in cars? Are there better ways for rising anti-immigrant sentiment to result in stricter enforcement with less violence?

soco 10mo ago
Now that you're mentioning, I'm surprised that, even though in some corners anti-immigrant parties rose to governing, they are only doing legislation and stricter enforcing immigration and border protection rules - not appreciated by everybody of course but somehow understandable where they're coming from. Might be somebody else knows more, or has seen more, but my one data point is: no nothing like that was ever hinted from what I can tell. And I'm appalled.
captn3m0 10mo ago
India has been deporting immigrants to Bangladesh/Myanmar and this includes Indian Citizens, because there is no due process being followed and court orders are being regularly ignored. https://www.hrw.org/news/2025/07/23/india-hundreds-of-muslims-unlawfully-expelled-to-bangladesh https://www.hrw.org/news/2025/07/23/india-hundreds-of-muslim... > authorities forced another 40 Rohingya refugees into the sea near Myanmar, giving them life jackets and making them swim to shore > the police raided his home, seized his mobile phone, and tore up his identity documents, which were proof of his (Indian) citizenship. They then flew him in a BSF plane (…) Sheikh said he was forced to cross into Bangladesh with eight others.
- square_usual 10mo ago
  I remember threads about this on HN back when the CAA Bill first dropped - you saw much of the same concern trolling back then, as if nobody could see what the real intent behind it was.
culebron21 10mo ago
I'm from Russia. There's no such special department there, nor police shoots at anyone in a car. They do chase, then after some minutes, if nothing works, shoot at tires. There's no rule, nor drilling to shoot then think, nor to take a gun ASAP. There's no qualified immunity for police either. (Right-wing Russians, even die-hard Putin's supporters, in fact admire this side of the American police -- like "you don't stare at a policeman in America", they say.) The whole issue of detainees being shot -- that's not a problem there at all. There is one department that's similar to ICE, the riot police called Rosgvardia (Russian Guard), which is anti-mass-protest force. When it was created, they hired all the normal police drop-outs, the worst. But they only carry batons. The real issue with human rights in Russia is in courts and law application, and inside prisons, out of public eye.

tombert 10mo ago

It's almost like giving a nearly-completely-unregulated quasi-military force unlimited funding, more weapons than God, and no clear goals other than "deport more people" is actually a really bad idea. People voted for this. Oh but hey, we at least made sure to pretend to save money by firing and then rapidly rehiring a lot of the workforce.

cmxch 10mo ago
If we give money to groups that aid and support the protection of illegal aliens, no sense in not outspending them.
- qotgalaxy 10mo ago
  [dead]
- estimator7292 10mo ago
  You're suggesting a grassroots movement to outspend the US government, one of the wealthiest entities on the planet
- metadope 10mo ago
  Here you appear to be using "illegal aliens" as a synonym for "immigrants". Groups that aid and support immigrants are doing a service that benefits America and all Americans; we should give them money so they can continue to help. Immigration is of benefit to most nations; we are no different. But if and when you call immigrants illegal aliens, you're removing an important distinction and distorting reality. Have you ever seen an immigration application? Ever examined the regulations that legal immigrants must navigate? Legal immigration is a quagmire, but some would rather turn away from the swamp rather than drain it; some would like to pretend that immigration is the same thing as invasion, to justify the lazy approach that groups everyone together in an alien blur.
  - chaostheory 10mo ago
    Apparently, a lot of people like cmxch aren’t familiar with the age depopulation bomb, where senior citizens start outnumbering everyone else like in Japan. We need immigration to keep economy healthy

bigyabai 10mo ago

Let's call Google, Microsoft and Apple accessories to extrajudicial martial law. No? We still like those guys? Gruber needs an identity that isn't conjoined at the hip with fascist enablers. His insecurity is palpable.

vdupras 10mo ago

And it's flagged, of course. Will somebody vouch for this? I know what you're thinking. This doesn't encourage curiosity! This is politics! Same old, same old. HN! Come on, how myopic must you be to not see that a working democracy is a condition sine qua non of your dear curiosity. You see what's happening in Iran, right? Well, they don't! Put your glasses on, HN, you're not seeing shit.

solid_fuel 10mo ago
So many people here want to bury their heads in the sand, like that will protect them. It's disgraceful to see people calling themselves "hackers" while they support the feds with no reservations or critical thought.
- deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]
- lovich 10mo ago
  A good number of people on this site don’t mind the boot as long as they are wearing it. It’s not particularly rare for groups of software engineers to have American style libertarians amongst them
  - jauntywundrkind 10mo ago
    I really want an HN overlay where we can act in public. The rank cowardice here is so low, these dogs hiding and cloaking the truth again and again, putting the veil over the truth. Being able to post publicly what we are up to, being able to see more directly, not have these obfuscating hiding folks hiding in their anonymity on the layer feels necessary. What a sad pathetic foe humanity faces. It's so sad than HN allows a couple people to destroy our ability to understand and see the world.
    - cindyllm 10mo ago
      [dead]

FpUser 10mo ago

At one point Orange was talking about shithole countries.

computerthings 10mo ago

[dead]

esseph 10mo ago

Site full of cowards. The stance this site has taken while things like this happen outside the very doors is shameful.

zahlman 10mo ago
> The stance this site has taken What are you even referring to?

tastyface 10mo ago

What I find even more horrifying than the murder is the response from people in power. Lying. Calling the victim a terrorist. Claiming she deserved it. Expressing unequivocal support for the killer. Threatening more of the same for the opposition. Posting fucking memes! Not even a hint of sympathy anywhere to be seen. These people are animals. They should be in chains in front of a tribunal, not running the country. And they dare call themselves Christians?

tim333 10mo ago
I'm not sure this will play well for them politically. A fair bit of what got Trump elected was saying they'd protect ordinary Americans from immigrant criminals. Now they have footage of a white middle class mum in an suv, pretty much their median voter, being shot dead by their thugs and saying don't believe you eyes and clear video evidence, she tried to run an officer over when she obviously didn't.
- lostmsu 10mo ago
  [flagged]
  - tim333 10mo ago
    I've lost the link to the main one I was thinking of but there are some pictures here https://x.com/GregTSargent/status/2009319825554985218 https://x.com/GregTSargent/status/2009319825554985218 It's not quite as clear cut as I thought as the car maybe nudged the shooter but the driver had definitely turned the steering away from him and was trying to miss him and get away. Also the car's direction didn't change after the shots were fired and it didn't come close to running over the shooter. The WaPo article seems quite good https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2026/01/08/video-ice-shooting-minneapolis/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2026/01/08/vid...
    - lostmsu 10mo ago
      There's a frame in the YouTube video I linked where the officer is right in front of the car, the car wheel is still turned toward the driver window (so if no steering is done it would run over the officer, moreover it is directed to where the officer ends up in the end), and the front wheels with a skid starts pulling the car forward in that direction. In fact, the car goes toward the officer for about 15 frames of the video and only visibly changes direction for 1 or 2 frames just before the shot (mind you that's less than 100ms at 30fps), after the gun is pulled out and pointed straight at the window. I would refrain from making any judgment on that because I don't know the intricacies of the law, but it is certainly not "clear" as a lot of people here seem to claim. I suspect most never watched the video in detail or interpreted it with hindsight.

lma21 10mo ago

Why is this flagged??

addandsubtract 10mo ago
It'S PoLiTiCaL
- Atreiden 10mo ago
  As self-proclaimed hackers who are part of a community whose core values include curiosity and critical thinking, we do ourselves, and the world, a massive disservice by closing our eyes and ears to important information just because it's political in nature. Hacker culture and fascism are antithetical, and we should all be acutely aware when the current regime moves towards violence to squash dissent.
  - y0eswddl 10mo ago
    i know the site moniker is "hacker news" but the tech industry at large is the furthest thing from being anything resembling a collective of hackers...
    - bitxbitxbitcoin 10mo ago
      The actual technical thought leaders aren’t necessarily representative of the tech industry at large. Id like to think at least some with a hacker ethos have made it to decision making positions - and hacker news is a spot for em to congregate.
  - zx0r2 10mo ago
    the owners of this site support the current regime
  - mickle00 10mo ago
    completely 100% agree
  - scarecrowbob 10mo ago

ZeroGravitas 10mo ago

The women he is praising for filming is, according to the current government, committing illegal violence against the ICE agents. https://reason.com/2026/01/08/you-have-the-right-to-record-ice/ https://reason.com/2026/01/08/you-have-the-right-to-record-i... > The Trump Administration Says It's Illegal To Record Videos of ICE. Here's What the Law Says. > Violence is anything that threatens them and their safety, so it is doxing them, it's videotaping them where they're at when they're out on operations," Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem said. So he is right to think she might have been shot for doing this. edit: note that's a libertarian source. They've always had a strain of civil libertarians on that publication but the comments on the site reveal a lot of libertarians now think it's a good thing that white liberal women are being shot.

throwawayqqq11 10mo ago
At that point, its not libertarian anymore, its identitarian. The victim was from an outgroup so anything goes, including your values around liberty out the window. Identity politics is at the core of conservativism and what ever is good for, or part of your group or yourself is just by nature and good for society. This tribalistic bias skews your reasoning, because we apes have evolved to sustain our own group or ourself. As social animals, we have externalized our self-preservative drive onto the tribe we live in and this bias drives libertarians to these comments and why there is such a significant overlap between religion, racists (group oriented) but also libertarians (individual oriented), etc. The big political divide is between people who are more vulnerable to such identity based biases and people who are lesser so.
4gotunameagain 10mo ago
And your point is ? Because someone is filming, it is okay for a federal agent to execute their partner ? I'm not sure I understand.
- Tohsig 10mo ago
  No, they're supporting Gruber's statement that the woman filming was putting herself in very real danger by filming the shooting and then continuing to film for several minutes after.

cmxch 10mo ago

[flagged]

Hamuko 10mo ago
Was the guy not jaywalking? Or was there another "murder" being committed?
superb_dev 10mo ago
Please look at the second image in this article[0]. It shows each frame of the video where a shot was fired. Her tires were pointed away when the first shot was fired and the second two shots were from the side of the vehicle. She was clearly trying to leave, she was not trying to hit anyone. [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2026/01/08/video-ice-shooting-minneapolis/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2026/01/08/vid...
- cmxch 10mo ago
  [flagged]
  - 4gotunameagain 10mo ago
    Okay, so it is indeed tribal parrotism. My question has been answered. Unfortunately..
4gotunameagain 10mo ago
You really think so, or is this some tribal adherence to your tribe ? I am not american, I have no skin in the game. But to me, the ICE agents were never really threatened. I would not be afraid for my life if I were in this situation. What I do understand, is the panic a person could have felt if masked ICE agents with weapons came their way. I do not understand why it has to be a partizan issue. What I see, is a federal agent murdering an innocent US citizen. How is this not a bad thing for both sides ? I am honestly trying to understand.
FpUser 10mo ago
Outright lie. Video is available and was dissected frame by frame. There was no attempt to murder by the driver. There was a psychotic SOB murderer from ICE.

metalman 10mo ago

this is so hard for me, I have been in several situations where guns have been drawn, including by police(for no reason), and others where guns have been fired as intimidation, and "accidental" discharges and have always reacted instinctivly and yelled at and stood up to idiots and there guns, watching this video and the one where a civilian disarms one of the attackers on bondi beach, vividly shows the monsters and people who will stand up and fight or are just caught up in something they dont understand, but that the person in Miniapolis who filmed this, stood there and bore witness while this unfolded is something I could never have imagined, the ones at the top, orchestrating these public executions, should fear the implacable bravery of those who will stand firm far more than a reactionary like me. Also, another person has documented ICE blocking an MD from assisting the murder victim, who is 20' away dieing.

cmxch 10mo ago

[flagged]

QuantumGood 10mo ago
As Wikipedia points out "Footage from three camera angles indicates Good’s vehicle is turning past and away from the agent, not accelerating toward him, when he fires three shots through the windshield, killing her as she drives by." Recently home doorbell video released also shows the same thing from a fourth angle. There are several videos, so "the video" is unhelpful. The NYT breakdown of several videos, or the Reddit synchronization of several videos show he was NOT hit, and seem to show she backed up partly to avoid him walking in front of her car (after dropping her youngest of three children off at school, with her dog in the car, just after waving other cars around her.)
- cmxch 10mo ago
  [flagged]
- QuantumGood 10mo ago
  A fifth angle: Video from the shooter's handheld camera synchronized with the best other video: https://bsky.app/profile/ragnarokx.bsky.social/post/3mbz7pt4wrs2d https://bsky.app/profile/ragnarokx.bsky.social/post/3mbz7pt4...
kccoder 10mo ago
Completely incorrect. You should look at the NYT frame by frame breakdown of the shooting for a better understanding of what happened.
- cmxch 10mo ago
  [flagged]
allturtles 10mo ago
> woman in the Missouri-plated Honda. Why this fixation among conservatives on the out-of-state plates? Desire to pin unrest on "outside agitators" a la Ghorman? [1] In fact the woman lived in Minneapolis, if that matters to you for some reason. [2] [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messenger_(Andor) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messenger_(Andor) [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Ren%C3%A9e_Good#Ren%C3%A9e_Good https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Ren%C3%A9e_Good#Ren...

bananabiscuit 10mo ago

I don’t think this is as clear cut as anyone on either side is claiming. Looking [1], it does appear that Renee attempted to run the car right into the ICE officer, the wheels were still pointing slightly left, and the officer was still in front of the car. Also in [2] you can see that she was looking directly at the officer during this initial acceleration attempt. The only thing that saved the officer in that initial attempt was the loss of traction due to the icy road. After that, indeed the wheels were pointing away from the officer and arguably there was no more danger to him, but after the clear attempt to hit him, you cannot realistically expect the officer, in a split second, to re-evaluate if her intentions to hurt anybody changed or not. At this point his life was already threatened. He doesn’t know what she is doing and waiting to find out could mean that he is dead. [1] https://x.com/CollinRugg/status/2008984798271094791 https://x.com/CollinRugg/status/2008984798271094791 [2] https://x.com/nicksortor/status/2009683575298211979 https://x.com/nicksortor/status/2009683575298211979

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throwawayqqq11 10mo ago
It gets quite clear, when you change the setup a little bit. 1) Make the PO a regular human without a gun and you can imagine, that any normal person would have made just a quick sidestep to avoid collision, like most of us have experienced in person too. Use of force was totally unjustified, esp. when you combine it with: 2) Change the intetion of the driver to really want to harm the person ~2m in front of the car. Cop get trained, that you should not use your gun on close encounters with knives, bc the short distance <5m will give you not enogh time to stop a knive attacker reliably. If you stand that close infront of a car, a short but strong tab of the pedal would have been enough to get you, no matter how fast you draw your gun or how good your aim is. To me, it is clear that she never ment to hit anybody, the acceleration does not indicate it. It is _very_ obvious. 2/3 shots hit the side of the car and the front wheel _never_ pointed at the PO.
- bananabiscuit 10mo ago
  the front wheel never pointed at the PO. My whole point is that this isn’t true. Look at the first video I linked, in the first couple of seconds, the cop is in front of the bumper, the cars wheels are still pointing slightly to the left, on their way to center, as she guns the engine. The loss of traction on the icy road is the only reason the PO had a chance to jump out of the way (but apparently by the NYT analysis, he might have been still hit). And at this point he is correct to think the driver is dangerous and might harm somebody.

hairofadog 10mo ago

They have released a version of the masked agent's bodycam. Seems to be another Rorschach test: they released it because they think it's exculpatory, but to my eyes it's even worse. He's engaged in a petty argument with the driver, tries to block her car with his body as she drives away, shoots her, then says "fuckin' bitch!" after he's killed her. https://bsky.app/profile/thetnholler.bsky.social/post/3mbz3va3en22e https://bsky.app/profile/thetnholler.bsky.social/post/3mbz3v...

empath75 10mo ago
Her last words to him are "I'm not mad at you"
- deleted 10mo ago
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metaphysicalyes 10mo ago
Very convenient because right around the moments of shooting the video goes blank and the viewer can confirm the below preconceived notions: 1. The masked gunman was in grave danger when in fact he had stepped aside. 2. The car accelerated rapidly before the shots instead of after the driver was in immeasurable agony. 3. All three shots by masked gunman were in self defense. Not that the next two shots were in the driver's face from side window while standing well clear of the vehicle.
- zahlman 10mo ago
  All of this happens in a split second. It's simply not possible, in the evidenced time frame, to fire one shot in self defense and then realign and fire two more with murderous intent. It is also not at all plausible that the position of the two individuals could have changed that much in between the shots. It's also very clear in other video that the officer has been struck and his balance severely disturbed; it takes considerable time for him to recover and he has very clearly fired all three shots before he has properly stood up. In short, other video evidence clearly rules out any possibility that "he had stepped aside". And we can see the relative timing of when the SUV's wheels start to spin, too, even in the video from behind the SUV where Good is obscured from view by the other officer.

cmxch 10mo ago

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throwaway-11-1 10mo ago
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praptak 10mo ago
He shot her multiple times through the driver's window. How can anyone claim it's self defense?
metaphysicalyes 10mo ago
> If anything, it indicts Gruber for wanting to bandwagon I am all for bandwagoning if it makes a dent in spread of fascism. I am all for bandwagoning behind keeping mothers alive. I am all for bandwagoning for the right to human dignity. > She accelerated against the officer, hit them, he defended himself By that standard all drivers in Manhattan will be dead within couple of months. Standing in front of a car which is clearly trying to move and on contact shooting two times from the side window is not the cheat code to kill you think it is. Why do you feel the need to make disingenuous claims?

aussieguy1234 10mo ago

ICE are the modern day equivalent of Nazi Brownshirts/storm troopers, who went around rounding up and harassing minorities in the early days of Nazi Germany. They're now able to kill at will and call it "self defence".

tda 10mo ago

The sharpest (and scariest) analysis I've encountered is this: the administration governs as though no government will ever follow. The blanket pardons for January 6th insurrectionists, the revocation of Secret Service protection for political enemies—these are not the actions of someone who expects to face accountability from a future administration. And that's precisely the point. Trump is not governing recklessly; he is governing with a specific end in mind: to be president for the rest of his life. That project requires dismantling the judiciary, hollowing out independent institutions, muzzling the press, and having his own goon squad. By all appearances, he is on schedule.

luke5441 10mo ago
My baseline (as an outside observer) is still that they are too stupid and uncoordinated to do a facist take-over. But that a significant possibility even exists that there will be a facist take-over is awful. (The main ingredient for a facist take-over is control over the military and media and he is not creating many loyalists in either)
- rozap 10mo ago
  Mussolini was not the brightest bulb in the tanning bed, but it worked for him.
  - luke5441 10mo ago
    He served in the military, though. Idk if he obviously was not loyal to anyone like Trump is, I'd guess not.
defrost 10mo ago
If you're a fan of sharp scary analysis, try Maduro in Minneapolis (Murderous Lies) by Timothy Snyder - https://snyder.substack.com/p/maduro-in-minneapolis https://snyder.substack.com/p/maduro-in-minneapolis The abduction of Maduro was not about naming his crimes, but about ignoring them. The worst thing that Maduro did is just what Trump is beginning to do: killing civilians and blaming them for their own deaths. After Minneapolis, Maduro’s lies are being repeated: in American English, by American authorities. The thousands of extrajudicial killings in Maduro’s Venezuela were carried out by organized death squads. These actions were described as defensive. The Maduro regime claimed that the people they murdered were resisting government authority, and that the men who pulled the trigger had been provoked by those whom they murdered. Minneapolis has just witnessed an extrajudicial killing, at the hands of ICE, which looks more and more like a presidential paramilitary organization. The action was, horribly, excused by the president, the vice-president, and the director of homeland security, using the same lies as those told by Maduro’s Venezuelan regime. The victim was resisting government authority, they said. The man who pulled the trigger had been provoked, they said. It was not the killer who was a terrorist. It was the mom who had just dropped off one of her six-year-old at school.

fzeroracer 10mo ago

I feel like posting this up top for context [1]. This is an example of someone actually getting hit by a car, from an ICE agent driving with clear intent to harm someone while laughing about it. I would assume that everyone who believes Renee was committing vehicular assault would agree that this is also a case of vehicular assault, and the agent in question should be charged with attempted murder. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/ICE_Watch/comments/1pjye82/ice_agents_in_minneapolis_mn_hit_a_community/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ICE_Watch/comments/1pjye82/ice_agen...

iugtmkbdfil834 10mo ago
The more I see of those videos, the more I am starting to understand previous generations' contempt for hippies. The difference is hippies actually believed in something.
- fzeroracer 10mo ago
  If you see these kind of things and immediately jump to a conclusion like this then I'm going to have to agree with SpicyLemonZest in their earlier discussions with you. I hope you stay as the 'right citizen' per your own argument lest the boot comes for you too.
  - iugtmkbdfil834 10mo ago
    If you actually look at that conversation then you know it is not exactly immediately, but based on evidence as it trickles down. I personally think your 'side' is missing forest for the trees. Since that is the case, allow me to spell it out for you. Antics of middleaged, overindulged woman, who was so comfortable that they thought she was virtually untouchable have gone mainstream. Do I get to stop ATF or IRS from performing their operations? No? Why is ICE different then? Because you don't agree with them? So, the choice is now to either normalize those antics, normalize excessive police force or some sort of reasonable middle ground. But what do I get? Insults and thinly veiled threats that once dems get into power, I will rue the day. Get off your high horse and realize that you are encouraging civil war for a retard, who thought they could do whatever they want and face no consequences. Welcome to the real world.

ndsipa_pomu 10mo ago

Does the administration's interpretation of this incident (i.e. self-defense) mean that it is now okay to fire at drivers that may (or may not) be about to drive too close to you?

hairofadog 10mo ago
As you migth expect, their position is contradictory, working in their favor either way. They have passed bills making it legal to run over people as long as those people aren't members of the tribe: G.O.P. Bills Target Protesters (and Absolve Motorists Who Hit Them) https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/21/us/politics/republican-anti-protest-laws.html?unlocked_article_code=1.DVA.g59t.DD8SWdDzvs1r&smid=url-share https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/21/us/politics/republican-an... "Stand your ground" laws often work the same way: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/is-there-racial-bias-in-stand-your-ground-laws/ https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/is-there-racial-b...

ndsipa_pomu 10mo ago

Something that isn't being addressed is why/how the ICE agents prevented medical treatment for the victim which may or may not have been life-saving. That seems like a level beyond war-crimes (e.g. sides usually agree to allow medical personnel access to wounded soldiers).