9 ms·

Minnesota officials say they can't access evidence after fatal ICE shooting

338 points by perihelions 10mo ago

afavour 10mo ago
I know a certain set of HN users doesn't like to discuss "politics" but if the government's site about "Eat Real Food" can sit on the front page for many hours (currently at spot 14 after being posted 23 hours ago) then this can too. It's important that US citizens know what their federal government is doing in their name. If you require a tech angle: how about the fact that smartphones have enabled this incident to be recorded from many angles by everyday citizens? A couple of decades ago we'd likely only have the government's word for it. How long before AI messes up that trust? EDIT: what do you know? This post has disappeared from the front page. Currently in the 57th spot on page 2. And yes, "Eat Real Food" remains exactly where it was. If you didn't already know about HN's moves to minimize visibility of government wrongdoing, well, you do now.
- nemomarx 10mo ago
  I've seen an ai generated image of the interaction already on Twitter, so basically right now. I'm sure someone will have a version that looks similar to the surveillance footage but speeds up the car or edits something by next week?
  - ceejayoz 10mo ago
    Won't take long. Already happening with still images. Example: https://www.instagram.com/jackmposobiec/p/DTQJKG9AJWT/ https://www.instagram.com/jackmposobiec/p/DTQJKG9AJWT/
  - nxobject 10mo ago
    It's sad how we got from the promise of world models, to models that alter reality.
- clanky 10mo ago
  Or how about the fact that somehow this vast surveillance apparatus seems to function perfectly when it is being used against ordinary people, fails constantly when it is needed to protect them, and somehow never catches a single person in the ultra-wealthy elite?
  - sidewndr46 10mo ago
    I think the term you are referring to is "Anarcho-Tyranny" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Francis_(writer) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Francis_(writer)
    - clanky 10mo ago
      It's funny, David Brin used to flog the idea of "sousveillance," meaning that mass surveillance was inevitable and couldn't be reformed but we could use it to hold the elite accountable. What a joke.
- rhfhfbdbd 10mo ago
  [flagged]
  - nxobject 10mo ago
    I'm not one to suffer people trying to stick their heads under the stand, but I that's unfair to PG personally – "perverted" is much better – I think he's calling out the truth to Musk on Twitter as we speak.
  - square_usual 10mo ago
    Don't blame PG; he's been out of managing HN for a while now, and he's been very vocal about his actual thoughts.
  - dredmorbius 10mo ago
    AFAIU there's no such thing as a power-user flag. All flags are equal, and what activates flagging is crossing a threshold. Mods can unkill stories. (There are also site-based penalties, much mainstream news has a modest penalty, and occasional other filters usually for highly-submitted topics.)
- arglebarnacle 10mo ago
  Agreed, and the impact, culture, and law around the rise of distributed smartphone video by citizens is especially relevant in a universe where the Justice Department has called filming immigration officers "obstruction of justice" and even "domestic terrorism" (https://reason.com/2025/12/26/justice-department-says-filming-immigration-raids-is-domestic-terrorism/ https://reason.com/2025/12/26/justice-department-says-filmin...)
- bossyTeacher 10mo ago
  >I know a certain set of HN users doesn't like to discuss "politics" I think what certain users dislike (for some reason) is government politics or social justice politics unless it's a topic they care about.
- sys32768 10mo ago
  How was that post hacker news in any way?
  - deleted 10mo ago
    [deleted]
  - steele 10mo ago
    How is it not?
    - deleted 10mo ago
      [deleted]
  - kccoder 10mo ago
    You don't see how a rogue government might affect technology, the people who build technology, the pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness, and essentially all elements of the lives we're used to leading? Seems relevant.
- praptak 10mo ago
  There is no blanket ban on politics. The guidelines only say "Most stories on politics" are off topic. The top guideline is that if it "gratifies intellectual curiosity" then it is okay. Even the tech angle is not mandatory, unless you believe that politics is just inherently unable to be the object of curiosity (to each his own but I would disagree with that).
  - afavour 10mo ago
    > There is no blanket ban on politics Nor did I claim there was. My point is simply that there is a very obvious pattern to what passes this subjective "gratifies intellectual curiosity" test among those with the ability to flag posts from the front page. Case in point, this thread is now being visibly flagged off the homepage: "ICE's Tool to Monitor Phones in Neighborhoods" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46543420 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46543420 It's inarguably tech-relevant and for the intellectually curious. And yet...
    - enraged_camel 10mo ago
      Yeah, flagging needs to be limited in a major way. As things stand it's used as a tool to arbitrarily silence certain discussions.
      - toomuchtodo 10mo ago
        Use https://news.ycombinator.com/active https://news.ycombinator.com/active
  - steele 10mo ago
    Everytime there a post containing a whiff of negative sentiment related to the 2024-2028 US administration, a wave of elective sociopaths swoop in to flag posts and derail discussion. Even if they understand the merit of the material, they will bemoan the political aspect. Even if they agree with the sentiment, there is absolutely an audience that prefers to ignore any sense of personal responsibility or culpability, however small, to the environment today-- and choose to attempt to stifle discussion broadly instead of politely allowing others to meaningfully engage with it. I believe this activity boils down: 1) agenda or 2) stubbornly evading shame/guilt
- nine_zeros 10mo ago
  [dead]
- randysalami 10mo ago
  Here is my tech angle: AI disinfo is already out in full force but the non-techies cannot even conceptualize. This is not some superiority complex but the fact that even navigating the UI of a simple app like Reddit can be daunting for newer users, let alone understanding the level of manipulation that goes on at even the smallest level in these programs (many, multiple full-time smart people on this stuff). I feel that this is one of the few places on the English-speaking internet (public that is) that really understands how far-reaching AI disinfo is and why discussion is important to happen here. Despite as you mention with, maybe some tampering by HN (though I truly believe HN does a good job walking that line) but look at places like Reddit with institutional moves after moves to push towards a low-trust environment that fundamentally fragments the socialsphere and makes people more scared and confused (with botting, algorithms, government oversight, etc. [where is your transparency report now?]). Call a spade a spade. To add a more personal opinion here which I also think is correct, all of this is intentional and deliberate and I'm sure there are people "in the know" who this is so obvious to but I'm only 25 and I only start wrapping my head around this stuff by the day. The admin clearly shaped conditions for something like this to happen but also create plausible deniability. You take people who aren't properly-vetted, and want this job, you know what will happen. Especially when you do it at scale, for a long enough time, it's an inevitability. What's the reason? Well the most scary thing I've noticed is how it's drawn a line. The other side, they're human and maybe find themselves trapped in a position but the chips are coming down. This is forcing people to take a stand that they might not agree with to remain in their community, their families, and even keep their careers, to take the step themselves of being ok with cold-blooded murder. All this to say, for the "bad thing" to happen, it doesn't just happen, it needs to be tested and proved and honestly, no one knows exactly how to get there (though we have some historical examples to look at). So the administration is testing, proving, prodding, deliberately to shape things so the conditions for the "bad system" can arise. A bit the breaking the seals in revelation except the seals are our moral composure as a society and the rule of law. This is a big step in that direction of badness and viewing r/conservative on Reddit (very botted), you can see how dire the party line has become. That's my theory at least.
  - metadope 10mo ago
    It's a good theory. The militia that DHS has deployed in search of immigration law violators has spilled over into confrontations with US citizens partly because of the lack of accountability, transparency, and training. By making these newbie teams of gung ho militia anonymous and independent of any oversight, the DHS administration has lit a fuse for an inevitable explosion. I don't know what was said between the agents in the moments before events unfolded that lead to Renee Nicole Good's death on camera(s). I do suspect (and speculate) that a spontaneous decision was made, inside the cab of the officer's vehicle, by one of the three officers involved (who was in charge?), to exit the pickup, move forward to demand immediate compliance, to exert force under a sudden assertion of authority. To me, watching the videos, it appeared that in that critical moment of deciding to prosecute the Good woman, the agents had exhausted their patience with the scattered crowd of citizen 'observers', annoyed by the entire exercise of locals with their camera phones and their ignorant application of so-called civil rights. The impatience and aggression is clear and visible in one of the videos, which show the sudden exit from the pickup, the aggressive approach to the driver's side door, the three commands from one officer to "Get out of the car!" (with the third command adding an emphatic expletive). This emotional behavior exhibits the result of explicit psychological conditioning, the development of mistrust and hostility towards citizenry which imho is purposefully encouraged to unify the team. The team is coached to make the militia into a cohesive unit that will hold itself elite, empowered, enabled to enforce retribution for whatever slight a team or team leader may perceive. They have been told they are righteous in their mission. They have been told that they bear the full authority of the federal government, and that they have the right to detain and/or arrest anyone who they perceive is obstructing them in performing their duties. They have been coached and prepared for battle, not just focused on the criminal illegal immigrants that are their purvue, but for anyone who appears to be in their way. Without accountability, and without interview access to the agents involved, we'll never know what was said and decided between those three officers. Only they know how and why and when they decided to take down the Good woman, instead of moving on to the next task in their team's agenda. Only they can speak to their intentions, what they thought their probable cause was, or even if they considered probable cause, arrest, prosecution. Maybe they only wanted payback. Maybe they were just frustrated and thus determined that the team's morale needed lifting with a good old application of force under the auspices of authority. Maybe yanking a woman out of her vehicle and taking her into custody in full view of all these citizen journalists would help spread the word that ICE is not to be messed with. But we'll never know, because the entire apparatus of the federal government is no longer to be trusted, not to investigate and report on itself. Donald Trump wants a national police force accountable to no one but himself.
- Timshel 10mo ago
  The current flag system is crap. You can't vouch for something until it's dead and has disappeared ...
  - dredmorbius 10mo ago
    You can email mods (<hn@ycombinator.com>), though they're often reluctant to restore specific stories, particularly those which are 1) political and 2) have appeared multiple times on the front page recently, though "significant new information" is a mitigating consideration: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29450726 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29450726>.
- xracy 10mo ago
  I think a point on top of this, is that the bar for "what is political" has become arbitrary. To your point, the MAHA movement is incredibly political, but for some reason gets a pass on what is considered "political" even though it's literally put forth by political actors. The current administration frequently gets away with pretending like they're not "political" and that only the people reacting/responding to them are political even though they are definitionally political. And the kinds of things that are defined as political seem to only be completely valid criticisms of the government, because they're "controversial". The number of people who claim to be non-political and are actually just conservative libertarians (I know what site I'm on) feels like it's sky-rocketed, and I would like to see HN and other platforms start calling this out. No one is non-political in the same way that no one is "color blind". Your politics are just unpopular, and you know it.
- swed420 10mo ago
  > EDIT: what do you know? This post has disappeared from the front page. Currently in the 57th spot on page 2. And yes, "Eat Real Food" remains exactly where it was. > If you didn't already know about HN's moves to minimize visibility of government wrongdoing, well, you do now. Yet another reason to always browse the "front page" of HN using https://hckrnews.com https://hckrnews.com which is chronological and uncensored.
- _yb2s 10mo ago
  HN isn't just broadly a tech discussion site, but is largely focused on the SV/Bay Area startup culture scene that PG and YCombinator play a big role in. The fact is, the current authoritarian political movement in the USA is being largely funded and driven by political extremists in our own community, who have become billionaires through tech, and are using their significant resources to inflict their personal fantasies on the rest of the world, without it's permission. By all accounts, our own Peter Thiel hand selected the current vice president for his position. The very person that today claimed at a press conference that ICE agents have "absolute immunity" and are therefore presumably allowed to murder anyone they want in cold blood without any recourse or accountability. Elon Musk's involvement here needs no explanation. Musk, Thiel, and their ilk that are often referenced by labels such as "Dark Enlightenment," "Techno Fascists," and "Neo-monarchists" are from and part of our community. Many of us were or still are engineers and business leaders that work or worked for or with them to give them the power and resources they now have. Some of us are even likely working at places like Palantir, developing government surveillance tech designed to accelerate the systematic dismantling of privacy, freedom, and democracy. To now pretend that this has nothing to do with us and we don't talk about things like this when people are being shot in the street, and murderers are being protected by a corrupt government that was in part selected and installed by our own community is morally reprehensible. As a community, we need to take some responsibility here, and not censoring uncomfortable facts will be a good starting point. Moreover, hacker culture is rooted in a historical ethos of freedom, anti-authoritarianism, and inclusion. If any of that ethos still persists, it goes completely at odds with the current status quo, where we refuse to talk about this issue, while members of our community continue to inflict widespread harm on the world.
  - clanky 10mo ago
    Thank you for having the courage to post this. It's a relief to see that others understand we're not going to make it out of this by remaining silent.
- Whatarethese 10mo ago
  I frankly dont a fly f** about those users. They should seek out their safe space if they have a problem.
deleted 10mo ago
[deleted]
perihelions 10mo ago
The primary source this seems to be reporting on is this link, which was posted earlier today and now 404's, https://dps.mn.gov/news/bca/bca-statement-regarding-investigation-ice-fatal-shooting-minneapolis https://dps.mn.gov/news/bca/bca-statement-regarding-investig... ("BCA statement regarding investigation of ICE fatal shooting in Minneapolis") https://web.archive.org/web/20260108163819/https://dps.mn.gov/news/bca/bca-statement-regarding-investigation-ice-fatal-shooting-minneapolis https://web.archive.org/web/20260108163819/https://dps.mn.go...
- DustinEchoes 10mo ago
  It works for me
potato3732842 10mo ago
Cops who perceive a threat don't just swarm a suspect's car on foot like that unless it's been hemmed in by police cruisers or whatever... I'm gonna say the same thing I said the last time someone made national news by dying on camera at the hands of law enforcement officers in Minneapolis: The world may by some people's estimation be better without the deceased in it but that does not excuse the keystone coppery that cause it to happen when, where and how it did at the hands of law enforcement.
- nxobject 10mo ago
  And less than a mile, too. History doesn't repeat itself but it rhymes, etc.
- clanky 10mo ago
  > The world may by some people's estimation be better without the deceased in it The world would be better without those people in it.
- newfriend 10mo ago
  [flagged]
xnx 10mo ago
Imagine the immediate civil war that would start if this happened under Obama or Biden.
- tedivm 10mo ago
  Just look at the response to the Jade Helm exercises to get an idea, and that didn't even involve murdering anyone. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jade_Helm_15_conspiracy_theories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jade_Helm_15_conspiracy_theori...
- sys32768 10mo ago
  Um, no, I cannot imagine that.
  - kahrl 10mo ago
    Try harder.
- benmmurphy 10mo ago
  I can't imagine what would happen if federal agents killed someones son, wife and dog in a firefight when executing a warrant based on a crime that looked like entrapment while a Democrat was in office.
giantg2 10mo ago
The linked article has basically no useful information. Here is an article with more information about use of force investigations related to state vs fed, including the use of vehicles. https://www.startribune.com/are-federal-immigration-agents-held-to-same-use-of-force-rules-as-local-police/601551432 https://www.startribune.com/are-federal-immigration-agents-h... Edit: why disagree? I'm adding more information about the process of accountability for fed vs state use of force than the original article even has.
- ceejayoz 10mo ago
  "The head of Minnesota's state investigations agency says the U.S. attorney's office has cut off its access in the fatal shooting of a Minneapolis woman by an ICE agent" seems like very important information.
  - giantg2 10mo ago
    That's interesting information, but it's not important/useful without additional context. As it stands right now, the claim that it is important seems more like conspiracy theory unless you have more information to share.
    - ceejayoz 10mo ago
      > That's interesting information, but it's not important/useful without additional context. Ironically, that describes your link. > As it stands right now, the claim that it is important seems more like conspiracy theory unless you have more information to share. The head of Minnesota's state investigations agency seems to publicly think it's important.
      - giantg2 10mo ago
        I suppose, if you just want to take someone's word for what is important rather than understand the underlying concepts and mechanisms. HN has historically been about learning new and interesting things. It feels different when people attack you for sharing additional information in a higher quality article than the OP. I guess that's why the post got flagged - low effort political flame bait that doesn't actually explore a topic.
deleted 10mo ago
[deleted]
steele 10mo ago
Justice obstructs itself. FBI can stare at the background of this American white single mother and accomplished poet until their eyes permanently cross (oop), but they will have to fabricate material to suggest she was a radicalized domestic terrorist. AI slop will become an acute problem for FOIA as well.
speedbird 10mo ago
The US is so far out of line with the rest of the mostly civilised west it astonishes me. We know how this will go. Officer claims felt life was in danger (it wasn’t, and well over by the time he shot), investigation will drag to drop from popular consciousness, DA will say nothing to answer, civil prosecution, private settlement, nothing changes.
perihelions 10mo ago
Radley Balko: > "According to my sources, the FBI was initially open to a concurrent investigation with the MN Bureau of Criminal Apprehension (the state agency that would do this investigation)." > "Trumpy U.S. Attorney Daniel Rosen heard about this and intervened, barring the FBI from cooperating with local police." https://bsky.app/profile/radleybalko.bsky.social/post/3mbwfzra5cs2l https://bsky.app/profile/radleybalko.bsky.social/post/3mbwfz...
TheNewsIsHere 10mo ago
Would love to hear dang explain why this is flagged. I can wait.
- dredmorbius 10mo ago
  Generally: users flag content. <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44333094 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44333094> Email mods (<hn@ycombinator.com>) if you have concerns.
  - potsandpans 10mo ago
    > Email mods (<hn@ycombinator.com>) if you have concerns Why waste your time? Dang or Tom will link you to the same pseudo intellectual analysis and claim there is no bias. Meanwhile, we have eat good food and iran protests plastering the front page, while the news of a an unprovoked murder of a US citizen by masked agents of the state gets buried with flags. We all know the answer.
    - dredmorbius 10mo ago
      HN has other objectives, specifically "intellectual curiosity". And I'm well aware that this results in a strong status quo bias, something I'm quite uncomfortable with these days: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43766618 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43766618>
      - potsandpans 10mo ago
        I'm not so sure that this particular incident can be explained by status quo bias. We had a tweet about killing communists up on the front page for two days, but this topic remains flagged. What status quo does that represent? Unless we will openly admit that the status quo referred to is fascism, and hackernews largely represents that.
        dredmorbius 10mo ago

338 points by perihelions 10mo ago

I know a certain set of HN users doesn't like to discuss "politics" but if the government's site about "Eat Real Food" can sit on the front page for many hours (currently at spot 14 after being posted 23 hours ago) then this can too. It's important that US citizens know what their federal government is doing in their name. If you require a tech angle: how about the fact that smartphones have enabled this incident to be recorded from many angles by everyday citizens? A couple of decades ago we'd likely only have the government's word for it. How long before AI messes up that trust? EDIT: what do you know? This post has disappeared from the front page. Currently in the 57th spot on page 2. And yes, "Eat Real Food" remains exactly where it was. If you didn't already know about HN's moves to minimize visibility of government wrongdoing, well, you do now.

nemomarx 10mo ago
I've seen an ai generated image of the interaction already on Twitter, so basically right now. I'm sure someone will have a version that looks similar to the surveillance footage but speeds up the car or edits something by next week?
- ceejayoz 10mo ago
  Won't take long. Already happening with still images. Example: https://www.instagram.com/jackmposobiec/p/DTQJKG9AJWT/ https://www.instagram.com/jackmposobiec/p/DTQJKG9AJWT/
- nxobject 10mo ago
  It's sad how we got from the promise of world models, to models that alter reality.
clanky 10mo ago
Or how about the fact that somehow this vast surveillance apparatus seems to function perfectly when it is being used against ordinary people, fails constantly when it is needed to protect them, and somehow never catches a single person in the ultra-wealthy elite?
- sidewndr46 10mo ago
  I think the term you are referring to is "Anarcho-Tyranny" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Francis_(writer) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Francis_(writer)
  - clanky 10mo ago
    It's funny, David Brin used to flog the idea of "sousveillance," meaning that mass surveillance was inevitable and couldn't be reformed but we could use it to hold the elite accountable. What a joke.
rhfhfbdbd 10mo ago
[flagged]
- nxobject 10mo ago
  I'm not one to suffer people trying to stick their heads under the stand, but I that's unfair to PG personally – "perverted" is much better – I think he's calling out the truth to Musk on Twitter as we speak.
- square_usual 10mo ago
  Don't blame PG; he's been out of managing HN for a while now, and he's been very vocal about his actual thoughts.
- dredmorbius 10mo ago
  AFAIU there's no such thing as a power-user flag. All flags are equal, and what activates flagging is crossing a threshold. Mods can unkill stories. (There are also site-based penalties, much mainstream news has a modest penalty, and occasional other filters usually for highly-submitted topics.)
arglebarnacle 10mo ago
Agreed, and the impact, culture, and law around the rise of distributed smartphone video by citizens is especially relevant in a universe where the Justice Department has called filming immigration officers "obstruction of justice" and even "domestic terrorism" (https://reason.com/2025/12/26/justice-department-says-filming-immigration-raids-is-domestic-terrorism/ https://reason.com/2025/12/26/justice-department-says-filmin...)
bossyTeacher 10mo ago
>I know a certain set of HN users doesn't like to discuss "politics" I think what certain users dislike (for some reason) is government politics or social justice politics unless it's a topic they care about.
sys32768 10mo ago
How was that post hacker news in any way?
- deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]
- steele 10mo ago
  How is it not?
  - deleted 10mo ago
    [deleted]
- kccoder 10mo ago
  You don't see how a rogue government might affect technology, the people who build technology, the pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness, and essentially all elements of the lives we're used to leading? Seems relevant.
praptak 10mo ago
There is no blanket ban on politics. The guidelines only say "Most stories on politics" are off topic. The top guideline is that if it "gratifies intellectual curiosity" then it is okay. Even the tech angle is not mandatory, unless you believe that politics is just inherently unable to be the object of curiosity (to each his own but I would disagree with that).
- afavour 10mo ago
  > There is no blanket ban on politics Nor did I claim there was. My point is simply that there is a very obvious pattern to what passes this subjective "gratifies intellectual curiosity" test among those with the ability to flag posts from the front page. Case in point, this thread is now being visibly flagged off the homepage: "ICE's Tool to Monitor Phones in Neighborhoods" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46543420 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46543420 It's inarguably tech-relevant and for the intellectually curious. And yet...
  - enraged_camel 10mo ago
    Yeah, flagging needs to be limited in a major way. As things stand it's used as a tool to arbitrarily silence certain discussions.
    - toomuchtodo 10mo ago
      Use https://news.ycombinator.com/active https://news.ycombinator.com/active
- steele 10mo ago
  Everytime there a post containing a whiff of negative sentiment related to the 2024-2028 US administration, a wave of elective sociopaths swoop in to flag posts and derail discussion. Even if they understand the merit of the material, they will bemoan the political aspect. Even if they agree with the sentiment, there is absolutely an audience that prefers to ignore any sense of personal responsibility or culpability, however small, to the environment today-- and choose to attempt to stifle discussion broadly instead of politely allowing others to meaningfully engage with it. I believe this activity boils down: 1) agenda or 2) stubbornly evading shame/guilt
nine_zeros 10mo ago
[dead]
randysalami 10mo ago
Here is my tech angle: AI disinfo is already out in full force but the non-techies cannot even conceptualize. This is not some superiority complex but the fact that even navigating the UI of a simple app like Reddit can be daunting for newer users, let alone understanding the level of manipulation that goes on at even the smallest level in these programs (many, multiple full-time smart people on this stuff). I feel that this is one of the few places on the English-speaking internet (public that is) that really understands how far-reaching AI disinfo is and why discussion is important to happen here. Despite as you mention with, maybe some tampering by HN (though I truly believe HN does a good job walking that line) but look at places like Reddit with institutional moves after moves to push towards a low-trust environment that fundamentally fragments the socialsphere and makes people more scared and confused (with botting, algorithms, government oversight, etc. [where is your transparency report now?]). Call a spade a spade. To add a more personal opinion here which I also think is correct, all of this is intentional and deliberate and I'm sure there are people "in the know" who this is so obvious to but I'm only 25 and I only start wrapping my head around this stuff by the day. The admin clearly shaped conditions for something like this to happen but also create plausible deniability. You take people who aren't properly-vetted, and want this job, you know what will happen. Especially when you do it at scale, for a long enough time, it's an inevitability. What's the reason? Well the most scary thing I've noticed is how it's drawn a line. The other side, they're human and maybe find themselves trapped in a position but the chips are coming down. This is forcing people to take a stand that they might not agree with to remain in their community, their families, and even keep their careers, to take the step themselves of being ok with cold-blooded murder. All this to say, for the "bad thing" to happen, it doesn't just happen, it needs to be tested and proved and honestly, no one knows exactly how to get there (though we have some historical examples to look at). So the administration is testing, proving, prodding, deliberately to shape things so the conditions for the "bad system" can arise. A bit the breaking the seals in revelation except the seals are our moral composure as a society and the rule of law. This is a big step in that direction of badness and viewing r/conservative on Reddit (very botted), you can see how dire the party line has become. That's my theory at least.
- metadope 10mo ago
  It's a good theory. The militia that DHS has deployed in search of immigration law violators has spilled over into confrontations with US citizens partly because of the lack of accountability, transparency, and training. By making these newbie teams of gung ho militia anonymous and independent of any oversight, the DHS administration has lit a fuse for an inevitable explosion. I don't know what was said between the agents in the moments before events unfolded that lead to Renee Nicole Good's death on camera(s). I do suspect (and speculate) that a spontaneous decision was made, inside the cab of the officer's vehicle, by one of the three officers involved (who was in charge?), to exit the pickup, move forward to demand immediate compliance, to exert force under a sudden assertion of authority. To me, watching the videos, it appeared that in that critical moment of deciding to prosecute the Good woman, the agents had exhausted their patience with the scattered crowd of citizen 'observers', annoyed by the entire exercise of locals with their camera phones and their ignorant application of so-called civil rights. The impatience and aggression is clear and visible in one of the videos, which show the sudden exit from the pickup, the aggressive approach to the driver's side door, the three commands from one officer to "Get out of the car!" (with the third command adding an emphatic expletive). This emotional behavior exhibits the result of explicit psychological conditioning, the development of mistrust and hostility towards citizenry which imho is purposefully encouraged to unify the team. The team is coached to make the militia into a cohesive unit that will hold itself elite, empowered, enabled to enforce retribution for whatever slight a team or team leader may perceive. They have been told they are righteous in their mission. They have been told that they bear the full authority of the federal government, and that they have the right to detain and/or arrest anyone who they perceive is obstructing them in performing their duties. They have been coached and prepared for battle, not just focused on the criminal illegal immigrants that are their purvue, but for anyone who appears to be in their way. Without accountability, and without interview access to the agents involved, we'll never know what was said and decided between those three officers. Only they know how and why and when they decided to take down the Good woman, instead of moving on to the next task in their team's agenda. Only they can speak to their intentions, what they thought their probable cause was, or even if they considered probable cause, arrest, prosecution. Maybe they only wanted payback. Maybe they were just frustrated and thus determined that the team's morale needed lifting with a good old application of force under the auspices of authority. Maybe yanking a woman out of her vehicle and taking her into custody in full view of all these citizen journalists would help spread the word that ICE is not to be messed with. But we'll never know, because the entire apparatus of the federal government is no longer to be trusted, not to investigate and report on itself. Donald Trump wants a national police force accountable to no one but himself.
Timshel 10mo ago
The current flag system is crap. You can't vouch for something until it's dead and has disappeared ...
- dredmorbius 10mo ago
  You can email mods (<hn@ycombinator.com>), though they're often reluctant to restore specific stories, particularly those which are 1) political and 2) have appeared multiple times on the front page recently, though "significant new information" is a mitigating consideration: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29450726 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29450726>.
xracy 10mo ago
I think a point on top of this, is that the bar for "what is political" has become arbitrary. To your point, the MAHA movement is incredibly political, but for some reason gets a pass on what is considered "political" even though it's literally put forth by political actors. The current administration frequently gets away with pretending like they're not "political" and that only the people reacting/responding to them are political even though they are definitionally political. And the kinds of things that are defined as political seem to only be completely valid criticisms of the government, because they're "controversial". The number of people who claim to be non-political and are actually just conservative libertarians (I know what site I'm on) feels like it's sky-rocketed, and I would like to see HN and other platforms start calling this out. No one is non-political in the same way that no one is "color blind". Your politics are just unpopular, and you know it.
swed420 10mo ago
> EDIT: what do you know? This post has disappeared from the front page. Currently in the 57th spot on page 2. And yes, "Eat Real Food" remains exactly where it was. > If you didn't already know about HN's moves to minimize visibility of government wrongdoing, well, you do now. Yet another reason to always browse the "front page" of HN using https://hckrnews.com https://hckrnews.com which is chronological and uncensored.
_yb2s 10mo ago
HN isn't just broadly a tech discussion site, but is largely focused on the SV/Bay Area startup culture scene that PG and YCombinator play a big role in. The fact is, the current authoritarian political movement in the USA is being largely funded and driven by political extremists in our own community, who have become billionaires through tech, and are using their significant resources to inflict their personal fantasies on the rest of the world, without it's permission. By all accounts, our own Peter Thiel hand selected the current vice president for his position. The very person that today claimed at a press conference that ICE agents have "absolute immunity" and are therefore presumably allowed to murder anyone they want in cold blood without any recourse or accountability. Elon Musk's involvement here needs no explanation. Musk, Thiel, and their ilk that are often referenced by labels such as "Dark Enlightenment," "Techno Fascists," and "Neo-monarchists" are from and part of our community. Many of us were or still are engineers and business leaders that work or worked for or with them to give them the power and resources they now have. Some of us are even likely working at places like Palantir, developing government surveillance tech designed to accelerate the systematic dismantling of privacy, freedom, and democracy. To now pretend that this has nothing to do with us and we don't talk about things like this when people are being shot in the street, and murderers are being protected by a corrupt government that was in part selected and installed by our own community is morally reprehensible. As a community, we need to take some responsibility here, and not censoring uncomfortable facts will be a good starting point. Moreover, hacker culture is rooted in a historical ethos of freedom, anti-authoritarianism, and inclusion. If any of that ethos still persists, it goes completely at odds with the current status quo, where we refuse to talk about this issue, while members of our community continue to inflict widespread harm on the world.
- clanky 10mo ago
  Thank you for having the courage to post this. It's a relief to see that others understand we're not going to make it out of this by remaining silent.
Whatarethese 10mo ago
I frankly dont a fly f** about those users. They should seek out their safe space if they have a problem.

deleted 10mo ago

[deleted]

perihelions 10mo ago

The primary source this seems to be reporting on is this link, which was posted earlier today and now 404's, https://dps.mn.gov/news/bca/bca-statement-regarding-investigation-ice-fatal-shooting-minneapolis https://dps.mn.gov/news/bca/bca-statement-regarding-investig... ("BCA statement regarding investigation of ICE fatal shooting in Minneapolis") https://web.archive.org/web/20260108163819/https://dps.mn.gov/news/bca/bca-statement-regarding-investigation-ice-fatal-shooting-minneapolis https://web.archive.org/web/20260108163819/https://dps.mn.go...

DustinEchoes 10mo ago
It works for me

potato3732842 10mo ago

Cops who perceive a threat don't just swarm a suspect's car on foot like that unless it's been hemmed in by police cruisers or whatever... I'm gonna say the same thing I said the last time someone made national news by dying on camera at the hands of law enforcement officers in Minneapolis: The world may by some people's estimation be better without the deceased in it but that does not excuse the keystone coppery that cause it to happen when, where and how it did at the hands of law enforcement.

nxobject 10mo ago
And less than a mile, too. History doesn't repeat itself but it rhymes, etc.
clanky 10mo ago
> The world may by some people's estimation be better without the deceased in it The world would be better without those people in it.
newfriend 10mo ago
[flagged]

xnx 10mo ago

Imagine the immediate civil war that would start if this happened under Obama or Biden.

tedivm 10mo ago
Just look at the response to the Jade Helm exercises to get an idea, and that didn't even involve murdering anyone. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jade_Helm_15_conspiracy_theories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jade_Helm_15_conspiracy_theori...
sys32768 10mo ago
Um, no, I cannot imagine that.
- kahrl 10mo ago
  Try harder.
benmmurphy 10mo ago
I can't imagine what would happen if federal agents killed someones son, wife and dog in a firefight when executing a warrant based on a crime that looked like entrapment while a Democrat was in office.

giantg2 10mo ago

The linked article has basically no useful information. Here is an article with more information about use of force investigations related to state vs fed, including the use of vehicles. https://www.startribune.com/are-federal-immigration-agents-held-to-same-use-of-force-rules-as-local-police/601551432 https://www.startribune.com/are-federal-immigration-agents-h... Edit: why disagree? I'm adding more information about the process of accountability for fed vs state use of force than the original article even has.

ceejayoz 10mo ago
"The head of Minnesota's state investigations agency says the U.S. attorney's office has cut off its access in the fatal shooting of a Minneapolis woman by an ICE agent" seems like very important information.
- giantg2 10mo ago
  That's interesting information, but it's not important/useful without additional context. As it stands right now, the claim that it is important seems more like conspiracy theory unless you have more information to share.
  - ceejayoz 10mo ago
    > That's interesting information, but it's not important/useful without additional context. Ironically, that describes your link. > As it stands right now, the claim that it is important seems more like conspiracy theory unless you have more information to share. The head of Minnesota's state investigations agency seems to publicly think it's important.
    - giantg2 10mo ago
      I suppose, if you just want to take someone's word for what is important rather than understand the underlying concepts and mechanisms. HN has historically been about learning new and interesting things. It feels different when people attack you for sharing additional information in a higher quality article than the OP. I guess that's why the post got flagged - low effort political flame bait that doesn't actually explore a topic.

deleted 10mo ago

[deleted]

steele 10mo ago

Justice obstructs itself. FBI can stare at the background of this American white single mother and accomplished poet until their eyes permanently cross (oop), but they will have to fabricate material to suggest she was a radicalized domestic terrorist. AI slop will become an acute problem for FOIA as well.

speedbird 10mo ago

The US is so far out of line with the rest of the mostly civilised west it astonishes me. We know how this will go. Officer claims felt life was in danger (it wasn’t, and well over by the time he shot), investigation will drag to drop from popular consciousness, DA will say nothing to answer, civil prosecution, private settlement, nothing changes.

perihelions 10mo ago

Radley Balko: > "According to my sources, the FBI was initially open to a concurrent investigation with the MN Bureau of Criminal Apprehension (the state agency that would do this investigation)." > "Trumpy U.S. Attorney Daniel Rosen heard about this and intervened, barring the FBI from cooperating with local police." https://bsky.app/profile/radleybalko.bsky.social/post/3mbwfzra5cs2l https://bsky.app/profile/radleybalko.bsky.social/post/3mbwfz...

TheNewsIsHere 10mo ago

Would love to hear dang explain why this is flagged. I can wait.

dredmorbius 10mo ago
Generally: users flag content. <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44333094 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44333094> Email mods (<hn@ycombinator.com>) if you have concerns.
- potsandpans 10mo ago
  > Email mods (<hn@ycombinator.com>) if you have concerns Why waste your time? Dang or Tom will link you to the same pseudo intellectual analysis and claim there is no bias. Meanwhile, we have eat good food and iran protests plastering the front page, while the news of a an unprovoked murder of a US citizen by masked agents of the state gets buried with flags. We all know the answer.
  - dredmorbius 10mo ago
    HN has other objectives, specifically "intellectual curiosity". And I'm well aware that this results in a strong status quo bias, something I'm quite uncomfortable with these days: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43766618 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43766618>
    - potsandpans 10mo ago
      I'm not so sure that this particular incident can be explained by status quo bias. We had a tweet about killing communists up on the front page for two days, but this topic remains flagged. What status quo does that represent? Unless we will openly admit that the status quo referred to is fascism, and hackernews largely represents that.
      - dredmorbius 10mo ago