4 ms·

Is this any worse than Google? Seems like the same business model.

by godzillabrennus 9mo ago

antiframe 9mo ago
Does Google have your medical records? It doesn't have mine.
- godzillabrennus 9mo ago
  People email about their medical issues and google for medical help using Gmail/Google Search. So yes, Google has people's medical records.
  - idiotsecant 9mo ago
    If you hear me talking to someone about needing to pick up some flu medicine after work do you have my medical records?
    - godzillabrennus 9mo ago
      No, but if I hear you telling someone you have the flu and are picking up flu medicine after work then I have a portion of your medical records. Why is it hard for people on HN to believe that normal people do not protect their medical data and email about it or search Google for their conditions? People in the "real world" hook up smart TV's to the internet and don't realize they are being tracked. They use cars with smart features that let them be tracked. They have apps on their phone that track their sentiments, purchases, and health issues... All we are seeing here is people getting access to smart technology for their health issues in such a manner that they might lower their healthcare costs. If you are an American you can appreciate ANY effort in that direction.
      - idiotsecant 9mo ago
        Maybe stop by to consider that knowing a few scattered facts and having your complete medical records is not the same thing, Hemingway.
- glemion43 9mo ago
  [dead]
- cogman10 9mo ago
  They tried to at one point with "google health". They are still somewhat trying to get that information with the fitbit acquisition.
- knowitnone3 9mo ago
  how do you know they don't?
throwaway314155 9mo ago
Since when is Google the model to emulate?
- godzillabrennus 9mo ago
  Depends on your goals. If you are starting a business and you see a company surpass the market cap of Apple, again, then you might view their business model as successful. If you are a privacy advocate then you will hate their model.
  - throwaway314155 9mo ago
    Well you said "is this any _worse_" (emphasis mine) and I could only assume you meant ethically worse. At which point the answer is kind of obvious because Google hasn't proven to be the most ethical company w.r.t. user data (and lots of other things).
- knowitnone3 9mo ago
  since always
adam_patarino 9mo ago
There are lots of companies that do this. Doesn't make it right. The real "evil" here is that companies like Meta, Google, and now OpenAI sell people a product or service that the customer thinks is the full transaction. I search with Google, they show me ads - that's the transaction. I pay for Chatgpt, it helps me understand XYZ - that's the transaction. But it isn't. You give them your data and they sell it - that's the transaction. And that obscurity is not ethical in my opinion.
- kyboren 9mo ago
  > You give them your data and they sell it - that's the transaction I think that's the wrong framing. Let's get real: They're pimping you out. Google and Meta are population-scale fully-automated digital pimping operations. They're putting everyone's ass on the RTB street and in return you get this nice handbag--err, email account/YouTube video/Insta feed. They use their bitches' data to run an extremely sophisticated matchmaking service, ensuring the advertiser Johns always get to (mind)fuck the bitches they think are the hottest. What's even more concerning about OpenAI in particular is they're poised to be the biggest, baddest, most exploitative pimp in world history. Instead of merely making their hoes turn tricks to get access to software and information, they'll charge a premium to Johns to exert an influence on the bitches and groom them to believe whatever the richest John wants. Goodbye democracy, hello pimp-ocracy. RTB pimping is already a critical national security threat. Now AI grooming is a looming self-governance catastrophe.
  - adam_patarino 9mo ago
    I think you just wrote a treatment for the next HBO Max sunday drama
- wegwerf_4783247 9mo ago
  And it's not only your data, that makes it much worse. "You are the product" is a good catchphrase to make people understand. But actually when you search or interact with LLMs, you provide not only primary data about yourself but also about other people by searching for them in connection with specific search terms, by using these services from your friend's house which connects you to their IP-Address, by uploading photos of other people etc. "You are the product and you come with batteries (your friends)."

Is this any worse than Google? Seems like the same business model.

antiframe 9mo ago

Does Google have your medical records? It doesn't have mine.

godzillabrennus 9mo ago
People email about their medical issues and google for medical help using Gmail/Google Search. So yes, Google has people's medical records.
- idiotsecant 9mo ago
  If you hear me talking to someone about needing to pick up some flu medicine after work do you have my medical records?
  - godzillabrennus 9mo ago
    No, but if I hear you telling someone you have the flu and are picking up flu medicine after work then I have a portion of your medical records. Why is it hard for people on HN to believe that normal people do not protect their medical data and email about it or search Google for their conditions? People in the "real world" hook up smart TV's to the internet and don't realize they are being tracked. They use cars with smart features that let them be tracked. They have apps on their phone that track their sentiments, purchases, and health issues... All we are seeing here is people getting access to smart technology for their health issues in such a manner that they might lower their healthcare costs. If you are an American you can appreciate ANY effort in that direction.
    - idiotsecant 9mo ago
      Maybe stop by to consider that knowing a few scattered facts and having your complete medical records is not the same thing, Hemingway.
glemion43 9mo ago
[dead]
cogman10 9mo ago
They tried to at one point with "google health". They are still somewhat trying to get that information with the fitbit acquisition.
knowitnone3 9mo ago
how do you know they don't?

throwaway314155 9mo ago

Since when is Google the model to emulate?

godzillabrennus 9mo ago
Depends on your goals. If you are starting a business and you see a company surpass the market cap of Apple, again, then you might view their business model as successful. If you are a privacy advocate then you will hate their model.
- throwaway314155 9mo ago
  Well you said "is this any _worse_" (emphasis mine) and I could only assume you meant ethically worse. At which point the answer is kind of obvious because Google hasn't proven to be the most ethical company w.r.t. user data (and lots of other things).
knowitnone3 9mo ago
since always

adam_patarino 9mo ago

There are lots of companies that do this. Doesn't make it right. The real "evil" here is that companies like Meta, Google, and now OpenAI sell people a product or service that the customer thinks is the full transaction. I search with Google, they show me ads - that's the transaction. I pay for Chatgpt, it helps me understand XYZ - that's the transaction. But it isn't. You give them your data and they sell it - that's the transaction. And that obscurity is not ethical in my opinion.

kyboren 9mo ago
> You give them your data and they sell it - that's the transaction I think that's the wrong framing. Let's get real: They're pimping you out. Google and Meta are population-scale fully-automated digital pimping operations. They're putting everyone's ass on the RTB street and in return you get this nice handbag--err, email account/YouTube video/Insta feed. They use their bitches' data to run an extremely sophisticated matchmaking service, ensuring the advertiser Johns always get to (mind)fuck the bitches they think are the hottest. What's even more concerning about OpenAI in particular is they're poised to be the biggest, baddest, most exploitative pimp in world history. Instead of merely making their hoes turn tricks to get access to software and information, they'll charge a premium to Johns to exert an influence on the bitches and groom them to believe whatever the richest John wants. Goodbye democracy, hello pimp-ocracy. RTB pimping is already a critical national security threat. Now AI grooming is a looming self-governance catastrophe.
- adam_patarino 9mo ago
  I think you just wrote a treatment for the next HBO Max sunday drama
wegwerf_4783247 9mo ago
And it's not only your data, that makes it much worse. "You are the product" is a good catchphrase to make people understand. But actually when you search or interact with LLMs, you provide not only primary data about yourself but also about other people by searching for them in connection with specific search terms, by using these services from your friend's house which connects you to their IP-Address, by uploading photos of other people etc. "You are the product and you come with batteries (your friends)."