3 ms·

This is not even a particularly competitive cashback card in the UK. But perhaps you don't consider that a "more regulated country."

by __alexs 9mo ago

agsnu 9mo ago
Huh? Cashback cards on VISA/Mastercard have all but disappeared, I think Lloyds still do one but it has a promo of 1% for the first year then drops to 0.25% after. American Express will give you 0.75% on first 10k spend then 1.25%. 2% is unheard of (unless it's promo or heavily capped).
wolvoleo 9mo ago
The UK is very similar to the US, very neoliberal. They have a little more consumer protection but not a lot. Here in Spain cards don't tend to provide any cashback, also they hurt your credit rating (in contrast with the US where they improve it and people end up shuffling cards). They're pretty unpopular here, most people just use debit cards. I prefer it too, if I don't need credit to buy something I don't want to use it. I currently don't have any loan or credit active which is the best situation in case I'd want to get a mortgage. We do have some cards like revolut which provide some benefits but you have to pay a monthly sub. It's more promotional stuff like 'free' Uber one, perplexity, tinder etc. I don't find those terribly useful except for perplexity but they give that away free with a lot of things. Uber one in particular really sucks because it's way more expensive than local alternatives (cabify for rides, glovo for meals) even with the discount.
- devilbunny 9mo ago
  Credit cards are, oddly enough, one place in which the US has absolutely amazing consumer protection laws. Debit cards do not share these protections by law (though many banks offer some of them). So, if you move to the US, getting a credit card, even if you never intend to carry a balance, is a wise idea. - You cannot be held responsible for more than $50 of fraudulent charges - You are not required to report a card missing within a short period of time to claim that charges are fraudulent - Because your bank account is not directly linked to the credit card, fraudulent charges occur with the credit bank's money, not yours, so you do not have to fight to have them declared fraudulent before you can use money in your account
  - wolvoleo 9mo ago
    Hmm point #2 is not really required here either. In the past I have been skimmed once and I was notified by the bank before I even noticed the transactions. They had noticed because several cards used at a specific public ATM had been skimmed and abused, they removed the transactions immediately and sent me a new card. Very proactive, I didn't have to do anything. Point #3 doesn't really play here because the credit card is simply a loan in your name and you are liable for the full amount regardless. You could simply not pay the bill but then the insane interest builds up. I will never move to the US though anyway. I won't even visit until the situation improves.
    - devilbunny 9mo ago
      #3 is a reason not to use a debit card but to use credit instead. If you pay your balance in full every month, on time, then there is no interest due at all. So even after you get your bill, if the card has been used fraudulently, it's not your problem and you can't be stuck with the bill. I was using the generic "you", not you specifically. Many people don't understand this about credit cards in the US. If an entire nation of people use something that nobody you know does, then either they are all idiots in a way that nobody you know is, or there is something that makes it uniquely valuable there. The consumer protection angle is the unique value proposition (and it covers quite a lot of things).
      - wolvoleo 9mo ago
        I don't think consumers are idiots but I do think the system is skewed towards unhealthy borrowing. These protections and cashbacks are nothing but an incentive to keep it the same. The exact same could be done with debit cards after all. The banks are making money off the late payments and customers are incentivised to buy things they can't really afford. Don't forget this system already collapsed in a big way in 2007 and it had massive global ramifications.
  - cmurf 9mo ago
    Year old story about the limited debit card protections, with an appalling Chase customer anecdote. https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2024/10/09/fraud-protections-debit-credit-cards/75211559007/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2024/10/09/fraud-protec...
- lxgr 9mo ago
  The UK still has EU-equivalent interchange rate caps that they inherited form pre-Brexit times. The only thing that's changed so far is that transactions between the UK and EU can be charged higher interchange rates again.
danpalmer 9mo ago
I was using "more regulated" as a lazy catch all, but I'm actually British and now live in Australia. The Apple Card would be pretty amazing in either market in my experience. The UK seemed to max out at 0.5-1% back at scale (not including sign up incentives). Australia is similar, although here credit cards are disincentivised even more.

This is not even a particularly competitive cashback card in the UK. But perhaps you don't consider that a "more regulated country."

by __alexs 9mo ago

This is not even a particularly competitive cashback card in the UK. But perhaps you don't consider that a "more regulated country."

agsnu 9mo ago

Huh? Cashback cards on VISA/Mastercard have all but disappeared, I think Lloyds still do one but it has a promo of 1% for the first year then drops to 0.25% after. American Express will give you 0.75% on first 10k spend then 1.25%. 2% is unheard of (unless it's promo or heavily capped).

wolvoleo 9mo ago

The UK is very similar to the US, very neoliberal. They have a little more consumer protection but not a lot. Here in Spain cards don't tend to provide any cashback, also they hurt your credit rating (in contrast with the US where they improve it and people end up shuffling cards). They're pretty unpopular here, most people just use debit cards. I prefer it too, if I don't need credit to buy something I don't want to use it. I currently don't have any loan or credit active which is the best situation in case I'd want to get a mortgage. We do have some cards like revolut which provide some benefits but you have to pay a monthly sub. It's more promotional stuff like 'free' Uber one, perplexity, tinder etc. I don't find those terribly useful except for perplexity but they give that away free with a lot of things. Uber one in particular really sucks because it's way more expensive than local alternatives (cabify for rides, glovo for meals) even with the discount.

devilbunny 9mo ago
Credit cards are, oddly enough, one place in which the US has absolutely amazing consumer protection laws. Debit cards do not share these protections by law (though many banks offer some of them). So, if you move to the US, getting a credit card, even if you never intend to carry a balance, is a wise idea. - You cannot be held responsible for more than $50 of fraudulent charges - You are not required to report a card missing within a short period of time to claim that charges are fraudulent - Because your bank account is not directly linked to the credit card, fraudulent charges occur with the credit bank's money, not yours, so you do not have to fight to have them declared fraudulent before you can use money in your account
- wolvoleo 9mo ago
  Hmm point #2 is not really required here either. In the past I have been skimmed once and I was notified by the bank before I even noticed the transactions. They had noticed because several cards used at a specific public ATM had been skimmed and abused, they removed the transactions immediately and sent me a new card. Very proactive, I didn't have to do anything. Point #3 doesn't really play here because the credit card is simply a loan in your name and you are liable for the full amount regardless. You could simply not pay the bill but then the insane interest builds up. I will never move to the US though anyway. I won't even visit until the situation improves.
  - devilbunny 9mo ago
    #3 is a reason not to use a debit card but to use credit instead. If you pay your balance in full every month, on time, then there is no interest due at all. So even after you get your bill, if the card has been used fraudulently, it's not your problem and you can't be stuck with the bill. I was using the generic "you", not you specifically. Many people don't understand this about credit cards in the US. If an entire nation of people use something that nobody you know does, then either they are all idiots in a way that nobody you know is, or there is something that makes it uniquely valuable there. The consumer protection angle is the unique value proposition (and it covers quite a lot of things).
    - wolvoleo 9mo ago
      I don't think consumers are idiots but I do think the system is skewed towards unhealthy borrowing. These protections and cashbacks are nothing but an incentive to keep it the same. The exact same could be done with debit cards after all. The banks are making money off the late payments and customers are incentivised to buy things they can't really afford. Don't forget this system already collapsed in a big way in 2007 and it had massive global ramifications.
- cmurf 9mo ago
  Year old story about the limited debit card protections, with an appalling Chase customer anecdote. https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2024/10/09/fraud-protections-debit-credit-cards/75211559007/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2024/10/09/fraud-protec...
lxgr 9mo ago
The UK still has EU-equivalent interchange rate caps that they inherited form pre-Brexit times. The only thing that's changed so far is that transactions between the UK and EU can be charged higher interchange rates again.

danpalmer 9mo ago

I was using "more regulated" as a lazy catch all, but I'm actually British and now live in Australia. The Apple Card would be pretty amazing in either market in my experience. The UK seemed to max out at 0.5-1% back at scale (not including sign up incentives). Australia is similar, although here credit cards are disincentivised even more.