3 ms·

So, according to your logic, the appropriate punishment for allegedly blocking federal LEO operations is to get killed? Who decided that she was'blocking' any

So, according to your logic, the appropriate punishment for allegedly blocking federal LEO operations is to get killed? Who decided that she was'blocking' any operations? It seems to have been an ICE agent. So, now it's ok for an ICE agent to be the judge, jury and executioner? Sometimes, it's hard to believe the level to which we seem to have sunk. What's worse is that the partisan divide is so great that even normally sane people can't seem to see any fault from 'their' side, no matter how egregious the behaviour. I don't know how a society can ever recover from that.

iugtmkbdfil834 9mo ago
[flagged]
- cthalupa 9mo ago
  Holding a random person to the same standards for judgment as the people we are entrusting the enforcement of law, sometimes with deadly force, is an insane thing to do. It doesn't matter if she was impeding an ICE smash and grab. It doesn't matter if she might have clipped the ICE officer at 4-5 mph when she freaked out - because the officer shot her after all the ICE agents were already out of danger of death or significant bodily harm. And it's not clear that she even clipped him. Most police departments have policies around this. The DOJ does. I can't find if DHS does. You are explicitly not supposed to shoot at people fleeing in cars outside of it being an immediate necessity to save lives or significant bodily harm. That clearly is not met here. It's also not even a smart way to handle it - dead people can't control the accelerator or the steering wheel. Point proven when right after that the car accelerates. The expectations for someone given the power to enforce the law, detain people, and use lethal force when required to are, and should be, many times higher than that of an everyday citizen. Should she have tried to flee? No. She would have hit him for sure if he didn't step out of the way. But it doesn't matter relative to the greater issue at hand here, which is that we should be able to trust our LEOs to not needlessly use lethal force - but we can't.
  - iugtmkbdfil834 9mo ago
    [flagged]
    - cthalupa 9mo ago
      https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/mgmt/law-enforcement/mgmt-dir_044-05-department-policy-on-the-use-of-force.pdf https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/mgmt/la... ICE is explicitly not allowed to use deadly force to prevent someone from fleeing or because they might receive a minor injury. It's also not allowed to use it for revenge, which would be the case here if he was swiped - the shots happen after he is to the side and continue even as she is past them. It is strictly to be used as a preventative measure to protect others. That is obviously not what happened here. Trying to justify the murder of someone by an ICE agent that has gone far outside of policy and far outside of policing standards just because the victim might have also done something far far far more minor wrong is insane.
      - iugtmkbdfil834 9mo ago
        [flagged]
- arunabha 9mo ago
  > That does not make ICE better, but it does make gene pool cleaner. Wow. Just wow.
  - alexanderchr 9mo ago
    They are not even trying to hide it anymore.
    - deleted 9mo ago
      [deleted]

iugtmkbdfil834 9mo ago

[flagged]

cthalupa 9mo ago
Holding a random person to the same standards for judgment as the people we are entrusting the enforcement of law, sometimes with deadly force, is an insane thing to do. It doesn't matter if she was impeding an ICE smash and grab. It doesn't matter if she might have clipped the ICE officer at 4-5 mph when she freaked out - because the officer shot her after all the ICE agents were already out of danger of death or significant bodily harm. And it's not clear that she even clipped him. Most police departments have policies around this. The DOJ does. I can't find if DHS does. You are explicitly not supposed to shoot at people fleeing in cars outside of it being an immediate necessity to save lives or significant bodily harm. That clearly is not met here. It's also not even a smart way to handle it - dead people can't control the accelerator or the steering wheel. Point proven when right after that the car accelerates. The expectations for someone given the power to enforce the law, detain people, and use lethal force when required to are, and should be, many times higher than that of an everyday citizen. Should she have tried to flee? No. She would have hit him for sure if he didn't step out of the way. But it doesn't matter relative to the greater issue at hand here, which is that we should be able to trust our LEOs to not needlessly use lethal force - but we can't.
- iugtmkbdfil834 9mo ago
  [flagged]
  - cthalupa 9mo ago
    https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/mgmt/law-enforcement/mgmt-dir_044-05-department-policy-on-the-use-of-force.pdf https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/mgmt/la... ICE is explicitly not allowed to use deadly force to prevent someone from fleeing or because they might receive a minor injury. It's also not allowed to use it for revenge, which would be the case here if he was swiped - the shots happen after he is to the side and continue even as she is past them. It is strictly to be used as a preventative measure to protect others. That is obviously not what happened here. Trying to justify the murder of someone by an ICE agent that has gone far outside of policy and far outside of policing standards just because the victim might have also done something far far far more minor wrong is insane.
    - iugtmkbdfil834 9mo ago
      [flagged]
arunabha 9mo ago
> That does not make ICE better, but it does make gene pool cleaner. Wow. Just wow.
- alexanderchr 9mo ago
  They are not even trying to hide it anymore.
  - deleted 9mo ago
    [deleted]