5 ms·

All if this, plus ICE just shot Renee in the face for no reason.

by frogperson 9mo ago

iugtmkbdfil834 9mo ago
[flagged]
- venturecruelty 9mo ago
  Flagging this for being blatant misinformation. Have a great day.
  - iugtmkbdfil834 9mo ago
    [flagged]
    - defrost 9mo ago
      Obstructing LEOs, whether state or federal, isn't a death penalty offence (with or without a trial) here where I live. We even investigate and charge LEO's for rape, stalking, murder, etc. when they overstep boundaries.
      - iugtmkbdfil834 9mo ago
        If.. and I do mean if there is a concern for life of the officer in question, yes, that is actually the expected response. And also yes, the officers in question are investigated afterwards, because you do want to know if the gun discharge was warranted. I watched the videos from several angles ( what a time to be alive ) and I will admit I would like to see how her car got into the middle of the road, but.. I can't automatically say yay or nay. What I do know is that she had a choice to get out of the car, but chose to press gas.
        defrost 9mo ago
        It's pretty clear from the videos that there was no danger to the officer that fired. They approached from the front, and stepped into the path of a turning "fleeing" vehicleto get a better shot at the driver and then jumping to the side. > I will admit I would like to see how her car got into the middle of the road I'm also curious about this, but in Australia this would have zero bearing on the "right" of a LEO to use lethal force. > What I do know is that she had a choice to get out of the car, but chose to press gas. She reversed, turned wheels to arc into the exiting lane and was shot by an officer who was already drawn prepared to fire. That officer had the option to step either way, that officer chose to step into the turning arc to get a better shot and then side step clear .. they were not in any danger other than the danger they put themself in. It's not acceptable here to kill people for fleeing. I realise it's more common in the US which has a reputation for LEO's shooing unarmed people in the back.
        iugtmkbdfil834 9mo ago
        << They approached from the front, and stepped into the path of a turning "fleeing" vehicleto get a better shot at the driver and then jumping to the side. Friend. Just from pure logic if the path was blocked by ICE agent then her pressing a gas means attempt to run that ICE agent over. And if you look at the vid in slow motion, he does jump to the side to avoid a swipe. << That officer had the option to step either way And I guess this is where the lawyers will have a field day. Best I can say is that he is lucky to have protection that comes from being LEO, where the standard is just different. << I realise it's more common in the US which has a reputation for LEO's shooing unarmed people in the back. To be fair, here it was literally face to face. << She reversed, turned wheels to arc into the exiting lane and was shot by an officer who was already drawn prepared to fire. As I am rewatching the video in slow motion, it does seem like he was preparing for the eventuality, but the entire interaction and change in stance takes mere seconds. << this would have zero bearing on the "right" of a LEO to use lethal force. To me it is not the question of whether they are right, but whether she had a good reason to be there. If she was following them around and ended up in that situation as a result, I might be more inclined to give ICE a pass. If she is an actual random individual that simply did not know what to do and panicked, then it is an actual problem. That said, it does not appear atm that that was the case. FWIW, I am not happy about it as I believe it further undermines existing system, but what I think does not really matter.
    - toomuchtodo 9mo ago
      The facts are she was given conflicting instructions and shot in the face several times at point blank range. There is no open mind to be had, the video evidence is clear. There was no imminent danger warranting lethal force.
      - iugtmkbdfil834 9mo ago
        [flagged]
        toomuchtodo 9mo ago
        https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000010631041/minneapolis-ice-shooting-video.html https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000010631041/minneapolis...
        iugtmkbdfil834 9mo ago
        And what, in your own words, do you think it shows?
        toomuchtodo 9mo ago
        Let’s Call a Murder a Murder - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46547612 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46547612 - January 2026
        iugtmkbdfil834 9mo ago
        You know what? Fine. Lets play. Define murder friend.
        toomuchtodo 9mo ago
        https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/mgmt/law-enforcement/mgmt-dir_044-05-department-policy-on-the-use-of-force.pdf https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/mgmt/la...
- arunabha 9mo ago
  So, according to your logic, the appropriate punishment for allegedly blocking federal LEO operations is to get killed? Who decided that she was'blocking' any operations? It seems to have been an ICE agent. So, now it's ok for an ICE agent to be the judge, jury and executioner? Sometimes, it's hard to believe the level to which we seem to have sunk. What's worse is that the partisan divide is so great that even normally sane people can't seem to see any fault from 'their' side, no matter how egregious the behaviour. I don't know how a society can ever recover from that.
  - iugtmkbdfil834 9mo ago
    [flagged]
    - cthalupa 9mo ago
      Holding a random person to the same standards for judgment as the people we are entrusting the enforcement of law, sometimes with deadly force, is an insane thing to do. It doesn't matter if she was impeding an ICE smash and grab. It doesn't matter if she might have clipped the ICE officer at 4-5 mph when she freaked out - because the officer shot her after all the ICE agents were already out of danger of death or significant bodily harm. And it's not clear that she even clipped him. Most police departments have policies around this. The DOJ does. I can't find if DHS does. You are explicitly not supposed to shoot at people fleeing in cars outside of it being an immediate necessity to save lives or significant bodily harm. That clearly is not met here. It's also not even a smart way to handle it - dead people can't control the accelerator or the steering wheel. Point proven when right after that the car accelerates. The expectations for someone given the power to enforce the law, detain people, and use lethal force when required to are, and should be, many times higher than that of an everyday citizen. Should she have tried to flee? No. She would have hit him for sure if he didn't step out of the way. But it doesn't matter relative to the greater issue at hand here, which is that we should be able to trust our LEOs to not needlessly use lethal force - but we can't.
      - iugtmkbdfil834 9mo ago
- jmye 9mo ago
  The idea that that’s an offense worthy of execution is utterly antithetical to any conceivable value you might say this country was based on. What a shameful, repugnant comment. What an abject failure of anything one could call “education”.
  - iugtmkbdfil834 9mo ago
    [flagged]
venturecruelty 9mo ago
Oh, there was a reason: they hated her, like they hate all of us who aren't miserable bigots.

All if this, plus ICE just shot Renee in the face for no reason.

iugtmkbdfil834 9mo ago

[flagged]

venturecruelty 9mo ago
Flagging this for being blatant misinformation. Have a great day.
- iugtmkbdfil834 9mo ago
  [flagged]
  - defrost 9mo ago
    Obstructing LEOs, whether state or federal, isn't a death penalty offence (with or without a trial) here where I live. We even investigate and charge LEO's for rape, stalking, murder, etc. when they overstep boundaries.
    - iugtmkbdfil834 9mo ago
      If.. and I do mean if there is a concern for life of the officer in question, yes, that is actually the expected response. And also yes, the officers in question are investigated afterwards, because you do want to know if the gun discharge was warranted. I watched the videos from several angles ( what a time to be alive ) and I will admit I would like to see how her car got into the middle of the road, but.. I can't automatically say yay or nay. What I do know is that she had a choice to get out of the car, but chose to press gas.
      - defrost 9mo ago
        It's pretty clear from the videos that there was no danger to the officer that fired. They approached from the front, and stepped into the path of a turning "fleeing" vehicleto get a better shot at the driver and then jumping to the side. > I will admit I would like to see how her car got into the middle of the road I'm also curious about this, but in Australia this would have zero bearing on the "right" of a LEO to use lethal force. > What I do know is that she had a choice to get out of the car, but chose to press gas. She reversed, turned wheels to arc into the exiting lane and was shot by an officer who was already drawn prepared to fire. That officer had the option to step either way, that officer chose to step into the turning arc to get a better shot and then side step clear .. they were not in any danger other than the danger they put themself in. It's not acceptable here to kill people for fleeing. I realise it's more common in the US which has a reputation for LEO's shooing unarmed people in the back.
        iugtmkbdfil834 9mo ago
        << They approached from the front, and stepped into the path of a turning "fleeing" vehicleto get a better shot at the driver and then jumping to the side. Friend. Just from pure logic if the path was blocked by ICE agent then her pressing a gas means attempt to run that ICE agent over. And if you look at the vid in slow motion, he does jump to the side to avoid a swipe. << That officer had the option to step either way And I guess this is where the lawyers will have a field day. Best I can say is that he is lucky to have protection that comes from being LEO, where the standard is just different. << I realise it's more common in the US which has a reputation for LEO's shooing unarmed people in the back. To be fair, here it was literally face to face. << She reversed, turned wheels to arc into the exiting lane and was shot by an officer who was already drawn prepared to fire. As I am rewatching the video in slow motion, it does seem like he was preparing for the eventuality, but the entire interaction and change in stance takes mere seconds. << this would have zero bearing on the "right" of a LEO to use lethal force. To me it is not the question of whether they are right, but whether she had a good reason to be there. If she was following them around and ended up in that situation as a result, I might be more inclined to give ICE a pass. If she is an actual random individual that simply did not know what to do and panicked, then it is an actual problem. That said, it does not appear atm that that was the case. FWIW, I am not happy about it as I believe it further undermines existing system, but what I think does not really matter.
  - toomuchtodo 9mo ago
    The facts are she was given conflicting instructions and shot in the face several times at point blank range. There is no open mind to be had, the video evidence is clear. There was no imminent danger warranting lethal force.
    - iugtmkbdfil834 9mo ago
      [flagged]
      - toomuchtodo 9mo ago
        https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000010631041/minneapolis-ice-shooting-video.html https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000010631041/minneapolis...
        iugtmkbdfil834 9mo ago
        And what, in your own words, do you think it shows?
        toomuchtodo 9mo ago
        Let’s Call a Murder a Murder - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46547612 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46547612 - January 2026
        iugtmkbdfil834 9mo ago
        You know what? Fine. Lets play. Define murder friend.
        toomuchtodo 9mo ago
        https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/mgmt/law-enforcement/mgmt-dir_044-05-department-policy-on-the-use-of-force.pdf https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/mgmt/la...
arunabha 9mo ago
So, according to your logic, the appropriate punishment for allegedly blocking federal LEO operations is to get killed? Who decided that she was'blocking' any operations? It seems to have been an ICE agent. So, now it's ok for an ICE agent to be the judge, jury and executioner? Sometimes, it's hard to believe the level to which we seem to have sunk. What's worse is that the partisan divide is so great that even normally sane people can't seem to see any fault from 'their' side, no matter how egregious the behaviour. I don't know how a society can ever recover from that.
- iugtmkbdfil834 9mo ago
  [flagged]
  - cthalupa 9mo ago
    Holding a random person to the same standards for judgment as the people we are entrusting the enforcement of law, sometimes with deadly force, is an insane thing to do. It doesn't matter if she was impeding an ICE smash and grab. It doesn't matter if she might have clipped the ICE officer at 4-5 mph when she freaked out - because the officer shot her after all the ICE agents were already out of danger of death or significant bodily harm. And it's not clear that she even clipped him. Most police departments have policies around this. The DOJ does. I can't find if DHS does. You are explicitly not supposed to shoot at people fleeing in cars outside of it being an immediate necessity to save lives or significant bodily harm. That clearly is not met here. It's also not even a smart way to handle it - dead people can't control the accelerator or the steering wheel. Point proven when right after that the car accelerates. The expectations for someone given the power to enforce the law, detain people, and use lethal force when required to are, and should be, many times higher than that of an everyday citizen. Should she have tried to flee? No. She would have hit him for sure if he didn't step out of the way. But it doesn't matter relative to the greater issue at hand here, which is that we should be able to trust our LEOs to not needlessly use lethal force - but we can't.
    - iugtmkbdfil834 9mo ago
jmye 9mo ago
The idea that that’s an offense worthy of execution is utterly antithetical to any conceivable value you might say this country was based on. What a shameful, repugnant comment. What an abject failure of anything one could call “education”.
- iugtmkbdfil834 9mo ago
  [flagged]

venturecruelty 9mo ago

Oh, there was a reason: they hated her, like they hate all of us who aren't miserable bigots.