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You do not back up if you plan to run someone over. You go forward right through them. The person in front of her vehicle moved himself there, as she was backi

You do not back up if you plan to run someone over. You go forward right through them. The person in front of her vehicle moved himself there, as she was backing up, in violation of training/procedure. Qualified immunity doesn't protect you if you aren't actually doing your job, and your job is to follow training/procedure. Edit because throttled: They are trained/procedure dictates that they do not stand in front of vehicles. He had plenty of time as she backed up to get into proper/safe/required position. The officer is the professional in this situation and it is them who are obligated to follow required procedure, not the random mom (with a glove box full of her kids stuffed animals) that turned down the wrong street when an ICE action was taking place who is being yelled at to both move her car and get out of her car by armed agents who approached her vehicle. You will have also see how she was waving cars past, she was not obstructing/blocking, the officer that shot her is whose car was blocking traffic, including her. In addition, ICE is on video driving much more aggressively into civilians in front of/next to them. Are you saying that the ICE officers should be charged with attempted murder for that driving? That civilians would be justified in firing rounds into ICE vehicles in self defense in those situations and should not face criminal consequences were they to start responding as ICE did here? In the video they shout contradictory directions for her to move move move and also shout for her to get out of the vehicle.

kcplate 10mo ago
[flagged]
- twixfel 10mo ago
  Doesn't look like that at all to me. He wasn't hit, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to stay standing whilst shooting her in the head multiple times. Shooting her in the head made no sense anyway because of course once you're dead you just accelerate. Nothing about what he did made any sense nor was appropriate. She was clearly just trying to escape. > People demonize ICE ya cos they murder people lol
  - kcplate 10mo ago
    [flagged]
    - mothballed 10mo ago
      Lon Horiuchi was charged with sniping an innocent woman holding a baby but I'll admit he wasn't convicted. So it's totally possible the murderer gets locked up for a few years while facing trial and then released. Which would be at least a couple years sentence since murder trials take 1-2 years to prepare and you get basically no compensation for time spent imprisoned awaiting trial.
      - kcplate 10mo ago
        Again, “murder” is charge that requires conviction. People keep using it here when its not appropriate to do so. I realize they are caught up in the emotion and not viewing things pragmatically. I am trying to provide a window to let people see that this is probably not black and white. I am not claiming that this officer did not cause the death of this woman. I am suggesting that because of LEOs having qualified immunity, this being a situation that happened very quickly, and that there are real questions about how this happened and why, that there is a high legal bar to overcome when analyzing it. It’s going to be legally murky and that alone will make it very difficult to waive the immunity.
        mindslight 10mo ago
        No, you do not get to tone police the word "murder" from everyone rightfully outraged with an above-it-all appeal to "impartial" but narrow legal definitions. We all know the legal system has been thoroughly corrupted, and there is the good chance this murderer will not actually be criminally charged and convicted of any types of legally-defined murder. This does not matter - in the eyes of We The People this is fucking Murder. And the emotion here most certainly matters - this is an American mother, being gunned down in broad daylight, by chickenshit masked gangs who don't have an ounce of respect for the citizens of this country they're claiming to serve. And then an administration and its state media mouthpieces, instead of taking a moment to step back and reevaluate and try to prevent this from happening again, doubles down on nonsense narratives about how this American mother deserved to be summarily executed - full-throated support for the murderer. Anybody with half a brain that isn't caught in an info bubble of reactionary propaganda should be fucking angry.
kcplate 10mo ago
[flagged]
- fzeroracer 10mo ago
  Can you point to me the part where she was interfering with their enforcement and duties? Because she was literally letting them pass, they chose to get out of their car and make her their problem. If you believe 'enforcing valid laws' means deliberately antagonizing people so that you can shoot them then you're already far gone. You just believe the law is a post-hoc rationalization for murder by the state.
  - kcplate 10mo ago
    > Can you point to me the part where she was interfering with their enforcement and duties? So is it perfectly normal for a civilian vehicle to just be blocking a street at a 90 degree angle during an active ICE operation where there are other protestors present? “Deliberately antagonizing” might be an explanation, perhaps “unintentional but poorly timed three point turn” is another. Either way, it’s interfering with the operation. > You just believe the law is a post-hoc rationalization for murder by the state No, I believe that Pierson v. Ray allows law enforcement the ability to be shielded from certain laws if the legality of the action is unclear or if it’s a reasonable human response within the circumstances. I don’t agree with it (as I said and you of course ignored). However that’s the law and it was an 8-1 SCOTUS decision…so it’s unlikely to change.
    - fzeroracer 10mo ago
      [flagged]
      - jacquesm 10mo ago
        The MAGA world in a nutshell: they will find a way to justify anything at all, including murder at point blank range because the alternative would require them to admit fractional responsibility for the outcome and that's the one thing they really can not do.

kcplate 10mo ago

[flagged]

twixfel 10mo ago
Doesn't look like that at all to me. He wasn't hit, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to stay standing whilst shooting her in the head multiple times. Shooting her in the head made no sense anyway because of course once you're dead you just accelerate. Nothing about what he did made any sense nor was appropriate. She was clearly just trying to escape. > People demonize ICE ya cos they murder people lol
- kcplate 10mo ago
  [flagged]
  - mothballed 10mo ago
    Lon Horiuchi was charged with sniping an innocent woman holding a baby but I'll admit he wasn't convicted. So it's totally possible the murderer gets locked up for a few years while facing trial and then released. Which would be at least a couple years sentence since murder trials take 1-2 years to prepare and you get basically no compensation for time spent imprisoned awaiting trial.
    - kcplate 10mo ago
      Again, “murder” is charge that requires conviction. People keep using it here when its not appropriate to do so. I realize they are caught up in the emotion and not viewing things pragmatically. I am trying to provide a window to let people see that this is probably not black and white. I am not claiming that this officer did not cause the death of this woman. I am suggesting that because of LEOs having qualified immunity, this being a situation that happened very quickly, and that there are real questions about how this happened and why, that there is a high legal bar to overcome when analyzing it. It’s going to be legally murky and that alone will make it very difficult to waive the immunity.
      - mindslight 10mo ago
        No, you do not get to tone police the word "murder" from everyone rightfully outraged with an above-it-all appeal to "impartial" but narrow legal definitions. We all know the legal system has been thoroughly corrupted, and there is the good chance this murderer will not actually be criminally charged and convicted of any types of legally-defined murder. This does not matter - in the eyes of We The People this is fucking Murder. And the emotion here most certainly matters - this is an American mother, being gunned down in broad daylight, by chickenshit masked gangs who don't have an ounce of respect for the citizens of this country they're claiming to serve. And then an administration and its state media mouthpieces, instead of taking a moment to step back and reevaluate and try to prevent this from happening again, doubles down on nonsense narratives about how this American mother deserved to be summarily executed - full-throated support for the murderer. Anybody with half a brain that isn't caught in an info bubble of reactionary propaganda should be fucking angry.

kcplate 10mo ago

[flagged]

fzeroracer 10mo ago
Can you point to me the part where she was interfering with their enforcement and duties? Because she was literally letting them pass, they chose to get out of their car and make her their problem. If you believe 'enforcing valid laws' means deliberately antagonizing people so that you can shoot them then you're already far gone. You just believe the law is a post-hoc rationalization for murder by the state.
- kcplate 10mo ago
  > Can you point to me the part where she was interfering with their enforcement and duties? So is it perfectly normal for a civilian vehicle to just be blocking a street at a 90 degree angle during an active ICE operation where there are other protestors present? “Deliberately antagonizing” might be an explanation, perhaps “unintentional but poorly timed three point turn” is another. Either way, it’s interfering with the operation. > You just believe the law is a post-hoc rationalization for murder by the state No, I believe that Pierson v. Ray allows law enforcement the ability to be shielded from certain laws if the legality of the action is unclear or if it’s a reasonable human response within the circumstances. I don’t agree with it (as I said and you of course ignored). However that’s the law and it was an 8-1 SCOTUS decision…so it’s unlikely to change.
  - fzeroracer 10mo ago
    [flagged]
    - jacquesm 10mo ago
      The MAGA world in a nutshell: they will find a way to justify anything at all, including murder at point blank range because the alternative would require them to admit fractional responsibility for the outcome and that's the one thing they really can not do.