6 ms·

We don’t need good vaccines anymore even though infectious diseases are on the rise. Other global medical experts seem to be going against many of his plans.

alterom 10mo ago
> We don’t need good vaccines anymore even though infectious diseases are on the rise To clarify, this is an example of RFK's lunacy, not the user's opinion to be voted on.
vscode-rest 10mo ago
The end result of his vax push has been to reduce the set of government required vaccines down to the same set used by Europe already. Additional vaccination is still available should an individual elect. Are you of the opinion that the European recommendation is insufficient? Would you petition European healthcare industry that they are requiring too few vaccines? If so, I would expect Europeans to be chronically far more diseased than Americans, do we see that in the data?
- amanaplanacanal 10mo ago
  The argument I've seen is that because the US has worse medical care in general, it makes sense to get more vaccinations.
- j0057 10mo ago
  I haven't particularly kept up with RFKs brand of MAGA craziness, but all European countries have different childhood vaccination schedules, with some overlap, see here: https://vaccination-info.europa.eu/en/about-vaccines/when-vaccinate/vaccination-schedules-eueea https://vaccination-info.europa.eu/en/about-vaccines/when-va...
  - vscode-rest 10mo ago
    The superset of all Euro vaccines is still much smaller than what the US had. Are we that much healthier?
    - davorak 10mo ago
      What is on the US schedule that is not on Euro schedule?
      - burkaman 10mo ago
        Here's the US vaccine schedule pre-RFK: https://archive.cdc.gov/#/details?q=schedule&start=0&rows=10&url=https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/hcp/imz/prior-years/2022/child-adolescent-compliant.html https://archive.cdc.gov/#/details?q=schedule&start=0&rows=10... Here's a site where you can view vaccine schedules across Europe: https://vaccine-schedule.ecdc.europa.eu/ https://vaccine-schedule.ecdc.europa.eu/ The only outlier is Hepatitis A, which is still recommended in some European countries. On the reverse side, the meningococcal vaccine is commonly scheduled in Europe but not in the US.
- Izikiel43 10mo ago
  They are based on denmark's guidelines, which as you know is a very cold country. One of the vaccines made strictly optional was for dengue, which is not really a thing in denmark since I think they don't have that many mosquitos due to weather. However, in the US, mosquitos and tropical weather are common for a large part of the population. Point being, a huge country with a huge variety of climates and diseases shouldn't follow the lead of a small country with a fairly homogenous weather and disease pattern.
  - vscode-rest 10mo ago
    Are you familiar with any European country that does schedule a dengue vaccine? It is not listed here: https://vaccine-schedule.ecdc.europa.eu/ https://vaccine-schedule.ecdc.europa.eu/
    - Izikiel43 9mo ago
      Maybe because dengue is not endemic in Europe? And it is in the Americas?
- hn_acc1 10mo ago
  Once those additional vaccines are off the "routine" schedule, they'll be pulled by the suppliers, because it eliminates exemption from lawsuits. If you "choose" a non-routine vaccination, people can then sue pharma for ANY harm, and you can be sure there'll be a bunch of crackpot right-wingers trying to prove each one is "bad" and they'll disappear sooner or later. RFK's fans (Del Bigtree) have admitted that this is their plan. And if they're NOT routine, they'll probably not be covered by insurance, so you'll have to pay hundreds or thousands to get one. I would still do that, but not many others will. Electing to get all ZERO optional vaccines actually available to you because of "reasons" isn't much of a choice.
  - jimbobimbo 10mo ago
    "Once those additional vaccines are off the "routine" schedule, they'll be pulled by the suppliers, because it eliminates exemption from lawsuits" Why is this bad? From one of the threads - "There IS scrutiny on vaccines, by the scientific and medical community - your "scrutiny" (as presumably neither a PhD in a relevant field or MD) is not valuable or relevant. There is decades of research that says that currently recommended vaccines are safe and effective." OK, then there won't be grounds for lawsuits or lawsuits will be easily dismissed. "you can be sure there'll be a bunch of crackpot right-wingers trying to prove each one is "bad" and they'll disappear sooner or later" - This logic can be applied to literally any product, be it a medicine, a vaccine, or any consumer good. Somehow pharma companies are able to sell any other drug without going into bankruptcy.
    - gowld 10mo ago
      Cerebral palsy, a naturally occuring disorder, generates $10M in "malpractice" payouts, part of why giving birth in USA is so expensive.
tomcam 10mo ago
Kennedy has never said anything like that
- wsatb 10mo ago
  "There’s no vaccine that is, you know, safe and effective." https://www.factcheck.org/2023/11/scicheck-rfk-jr-incorrectly-denies-past-remarks-on-vaccine-safety-and-effectiveness/ https://www.factcheck.org/2023/11/scicheck-rfk-jr-incorrectl...
  - tempaccountabcd 10mo ago
    [dead]
- burkaman 10mo ago
  Some direct, in-context quotes: > There’s no vaccine that is safe and effective. [interviewer pushes back, brings up polio vaccine] So if you say to me, “The polio vaccine, was it effective against polio?” I’m going to say, “Yes.” And if say to me, “Did it cause more death than avert?” I would say, “I don’t know, because we don’t have the data on that.” > The most popular vaccine in the world is the DTP vaccine. [...] That vaccine caused so many injuries that Wyeth, which was the manufacturer, said to the Reagan administration, “We are now paying $20 in downstream liabilities for every dollar that we’re making in profits, and we are getting out of the business unless you give us permanent immunity from liability.” And by the way, Reagan said at that time, “Why don’t you just make the vaccine safe?” And why is that? Because vaccines are inherently unsafe. They said, “Unavoidably unsafe, you cannot make them safe.” Not going quote the whole thing because it's long, but he repeatedly drives home his point that all vaccines are inherently unsafe, and the injuries and deaths they cause always outweigh their effectiveness against disease. - https://lexfridman.com/robert-f-kennedy-jr-transcript/ https://lexfridman.com/robert-f-kennedy-jr-transcript/ > I see somebody on a hiking trail carrying a little baby and I say to him, ‘Better not get him vaccinated.’ And he heard that from me. If he hears it from 10 other people, maybe he won’t do it, you know, maybe he will save that child. > If you’re one of 10 people that goes up to a guy, a man or a woman, who’s carrying a baby, and says, ‘Don’t vaccinate that baby,’ when they hear that from 10 people, it’ll make an impression on ‘em, you know. And we all kept our mouth shut. Don’t keep your mouth shut anymore. Confront everybody on it. - https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-way-forward/hffh-the-state-of-health-k0HvGSWJeNl/ https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-way-forward/hffh-th... timestamp 11:54, 13:30 This one is interesting because the interviewer prompts him with something like "we aren't anti-vaccine, we just want to make sure they're safe" and he does not agree, he repeatedly says, with no qualification, "tell everyone not to vaccinate their children". I don't believe he has ever voluntarily made a positive public comment about any vaccine. He did during his confirmation hearing, but he was obviously heavily incentivized to do so. During that hearing he did not say his opinion had changed, he simply lied about all past comments and claimed they never happened.

alterom 10mo ago

> We don’t need good vaccines anymore even though infectious diseases are on the rise To clarify, this is an example of RFK's lunacy, not the user's opinion to be voted on.

vscode-rest 10mo ago

The end result of his vax push has been to reduce the set of government required vaccines down to the same set used by Europe already. Additional vaccination is still available should an individual elect. Are you of the opinion that the European recommendation is insufficient? Would you petition European healthcare industry that they are requiring too few vaccines? If so, I would expect Europeans to be chronically far more diseased than Americans, do we see that in the data?

amanaplanacanal 10mo ago
The argument I've seen is that because the US has worse medical care in general, it makes sense to get more vaccinations.
j0057 10mo ago
I haven't particularly kept up with RFKs brand of MAGA craziness, but all European countries have different childhood vaccination schedules, with some overlap, see here: https://vaccination-info.europa.eu/en/about-vaccines/when-vaccinate/vaccination-schedules-eueea https://vaccination-info.europa.eu/en/about-vaccines/when-va...
- vscode-rest 10mo ago
  The superset of all Euro vaccines is still much smaller than what the US had. Are we that much healthier?
  - davorak 10mo ago
    What is on the US schedule that is not on Euro schedule?
    - burkaman 10mo ago
      Here's the US vaccine schedule pre-RFK: https://archive.cdc.gov/#/details?q=schedule&start=0&rows=10&url=https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/hcp/imz/prior-years/2022/child-adolescent-compliant.html https://archive.cdc.gov/#/details?q=schedule&start=0&rows=10... Here's a site where you can view vaccine schedules across Europe: https://vaccine-schedule.ecdc.europa.eu/ https://vaccine-schedule.ecdc.europa.eu/ The only outlier is Hepatitis A, which is still recommended in some European countries. On the reverse side, the meningococcal vaccine is commonly scheduled in Europe but not in the US.
Izikiel43 10mo ago
They are based on denmark's guidelines, which as you know is a very cold country. One of the vaccines made strictly optional was for dengue, which is not really a thing in denmark since I think they don't have that many mosquitos due to weather. However, in the US, mosquitos and tropical weather are common for a large part of the population. Point being, a huge country with a huge variety of climates and diseases shouldn't follow the lead of a small country with a fairly homogenous weather and disease pattern.
- vscode-rest 10mo ago
  Are you familiar with any European country that does schedule a dengue vaccine? It is not listed here: https://vaccine-schedule.ecdc.europa.eu/ https://vaccine-schedule.ecdc.europa.eu/
  - Izikiel43 9mo ago
    Maybe because dengue is not endemic in Europe? And it is in the Americas?
hn_acc1 10mo ago
Once those additional vaccines are off the "routine" schedule, they'll be pulled by the suppliers, because it eliminates exemption from lawsuits. If you "choose" a non-routine vaccination, people can then sue pharma for ANY harm, and you can be sure there'll be a bunch of crackpot right-wingers trying to prove each one is "bad" and they'll disappear sooner or later. RFK's fans (Del Bigtree) have admitted that this is their plan. And if they're NOT routine, they'll probably not be covered by insurance, so you'll have to pay hundreds or thousands to get one. I would still do that, but not many others will. Electing to get all ZERO optional vaccines actually available to you because of "reasons" isn't much of a choice.
- jimbobimbo 10mo ago
  "Once those additional vaccines are off the "routine" schedule, they'll be pulled by the suppliers, because it eliminates exemption from lawsuits" Why is this bad? From one of the threads - "There IS scrutiny on vaccines, by the scientific and medical community - your "scrutiny" (as presumably neither a PhD in a relevant field or MD) is not valuable or relevant. There is decades of research that says that currently recommended vaccines are safe and effective." OK, then there won't be grounds for lawsuits or lawsuits will be easily dismissed. "you can be sure there'll be a bunch of crackpot right-wingers trying to prove each one is "bad" and they'll disappear sooner or later" - This logic can be applied to literally any product, be it a medicine, a vaccine, or any consumer good. Somehow pharma companies are able to sell any other drug without going into bankruptcy.
  - gowld 10mo ago
    Cerebral palsy, a naturally occuring disorder, generates $10M in "malpractice" payouts, part of why giving birth in USA is so expensive.

tomcam 10mo ago

Kennedy has never said anything like that

wsatb 10mo ago
"There’s no vaccine that is, you know, safe and effective." https://www.factcheck.org/2023/11/scicheck-rfk-jr-incorrectly-denies-past-remarks-on-vaccine-safety-and-effectiveness/ https://www.factcheck.org/2023/11/scicheck-rfk-jr-incorrectl...
- tempaccountabcd 10mo ago
  [dead]
burkaman 10mo ago
Some direct, in-context quotes: > There’s no vaccine that is safe and effective. [interviewer pushes back, brings up polio vaccine] So if you say to me, “The polio vaccine, was it effective against polio?” I’m going to say, “Yes.” And if say to me, “Did it cause more death than avert?” I would say, “I don’t know, because we don’t have the data on that.” > The most popular vaccine in the world is the DTP vaccine. [...] That vaccine caused so many injuries that Wyeth, which was the manufacturer, said to the Reagan administration, “We are now paying $20 in downstream liabilities for every dollar that we’re making in profits, and we are getting out of the business unless you give us permanent immunity from liability.” And by the way, Reagan said at that time, “Why don’t you just make the vaccine safe?” And why is that? Because vaccines are inherently unsafe. They said, “Unavoidably unsafe, you cannot make them safe.” Not going quote the whole thing because it's long, but he repeatedly drives home his point that all vaccines are inherently unsafe, and the injuries and deaths they cause always outweigh their effectiveness against disease. - https://lexfridman.com/robert-f-kennedy-jr-transcript/ https://lexfridman.com/robert-f-kennedy-jr-transcript/ > I see somebody on a hiking trail carrying a little baby and I say to him, ‘Better not get him vaccinated.’ And he heard that from me. If he hears it from 10 other people, maybe he won’t do it, you know, maybe he will save that child. > If you’re one of 10 people that goes up to a guy, a man or a woman, who’s carrying a baby, and says, ‘Don’t vaccinate that baby,’ when they hear that from 10 people, it’ll make an impression on ‘em, you know. And we all kept our mouth shut. Don’t keep your mouth shut anymore. Confront everybody on it. - https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-way-forward/hffh-the-state-of-health-k0HvGSWJeNl/ https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-way-forward/hffh-th... timestamp 11:54, 13:30 This one is interesting because the interviewer prompts him with something like "we aren't anti-vaccine, we just want to make sure they're safe" and he does not agree, he repeatedly says, with no qualification, "tell everyone not to vaccinate their children". I don't believe he has ever voluntarily made a positive public comment about any vaccine. He did during his confirmation hearing, but he was obviously heavily incentivized to do so. During that hearing he did not say his opinion had changed, he simply lied about all past comments and claimed they never happened.