4 ms·

Something’s wrong when a key piece of foundational web tech is staring down unsustainability. Tailwind is almost ubiquitous these days. It needs to continue to

Something’s wrong when a key piece of foundational web tech is staring down unsustainability. Tailwind is almost ubiquitous these days. It needs to continue to exist. Small businesses being eaten by AI is a net negative, because they’re in a unique position whereby they need to actually have to listen to customers vs just optimizing for a rando middle manger’s promotion in BigTech.

threetonesun 9mo ago
You could go back in time and say this about jQuery. Tailwind's future was always questionable because CSS is growing in new and amazing ways, and wrapping the complexity of new CSS features into helper classes isn't really a sustainable model. That said if someone wants a business model, figure out a way to get paid to get AI to make UIs using newer CSS features, because right now it's quite terrible at it.
- arnvald 9mo ago
  The difference is that jQuery was replaced by other libraries, while Tailwind grows in popularity, but due to AI its creator doesn’t benefit from this popularity as much as before
  - threetonesun 9mo ago
    jQuery was essentially replaced by JavaScript (and browser compatibility) getting better, but it continued to exist and grow because it was the de facto way to DOM manipulation, especially if you had to copy and paste off of Stack Overflow, or roll out a framework based UI. Tailwind being the default choice for AI UIs is not that different, it can continue to grow in usage but the fundamental need for Tailwind has passed.
    - yCombLinks 9mo ago
      The difference is jquery went away because better things replaced it (in javascript). If the fundamental need for tailwind has passed why is it's usage growing? It's more that the problem solved by the paid portion of tailwind is now solved by AI.
conrs 9mo ago
As an engineer, I want to believe this, but really - does it? Most folks use frameworks because it's easier than learning how to build it all yourself - things are done for you instead. This niche is now getting eroded by AI and low-code substantially. Couple that with my experience maintaining frontends that are far too complex for their use cases - e.g. do we really need SPA's, state sync, and reusable components for our admin tool that doesn't reuse components? This leads me to think there's been bloat here for at least a decade. So, while vibe coding will also lead to bloat, it's easier to work with, and arguably higher value than paying for a specific framework. It's a tragedy in life that things that are useful don't always get valued, instead being used as a stepping stone for progress, but I'm not sure that has a solution.
- mattgreenrocks 9mo ago
  Webdev has overvalued DX to the detriment the user experience for the past 10-15 years. A correction has been long overdue.
wiseowise 9mo ago
CSS is foundational. Tailwind is not.
manuelmoreale 9mo ago
I’m sorry for what’s happening to Tailwind, it clearly sucks, but a library like that is definitely not a key piece of foundational web tech the same way bootstrap and jquery weren’t.
satvikpendem 9mo ago
> key piece of foundational web tech is staring down unsustainability This must be satire. CSS is what's actually foundational; literally, a foundation upon which Tailwind was built.
- mattgreenrocks 9mo ago
  It's a key component for many webdevs even if it isn't literally foundational.
mikeg8 9mo ago
“Foundational” seems a bit overkill here. There is nothing foundational about it – it’s a convenience tool, albeit a very good one. AI is disruptive technology - like other tech innovations before it, there will be casualties to incumbents. If anything, this just shows how small businesses with need to be more creative when establishing moats and sustainability in this new landscape.
paxys 9mo ago
This "key piece of foundational web tech" was released 5 years ago and gained prominence maybe 2-3 years ago. Let's not exaggerate its impact. We were perfectly fine before Tailwind and will be fine after it.
- Hammershaft 9mo ago
  We were not fine before Tailwind, we aren't fine now, and we won't be fine after it until the day we finally recognize that CSS is a terrible foundational standard that deserves to be replaced.
  - manuelmoreale 9mo ago
    > deserves to be replaced Replaced by what exactly? Also, when was the last time a foundational piece of tech powering of the web got replaced by something entirely different? Also who has decided that CSS is a "terrible foundational standard"?
philipwhiuk 9mo ago
I've never used Tailwind. I guess it's just an alternative to Bootstrap from the docs? There's plenty of alternative CSS frameworks. I can absolutely see why it's difficult to monetize.

threetonesun 9mo ago

You could go back in time and say this about jQuery. Tailwind's future was always questionable because CSS is growing in new and amazing ways, and wrapping the complexity of new CSS features into helper classes isn't really a sustainable model. That said if someone wants a business model, figure out a way to get paid to get AI to make UIs using newer CSS features, because right now it's quite terrible at it.

arnvald 9mo ago
The difference is that jQuery was replaced by other libraries, while Tailwind grows in popularity, but due to AI its creator doesn’t benefit from this popularity as much as before
- threetonesun 9mo ago
  jQuery was essentially replaced by JavaScript (and browser compatibility) getting better, but it continued to exist and grow because it was the de facto way to DOM manipulation, especially if you had to copy and paste off of Stack Overflow, or roll out a framework based UI. Tailwind being the default choice for AI UIs is not that different, it can continue to grow in usage but the fundamental need for Tailwind has passed.
  - yCombLinks 9mo ago
    The difference is jquery went away because better things replaced it (in javascript). If the fundamental need for tailwind has passed why is it's usage growing? It's more that the problem solved by the paid portion of tailwind is now solved by AI.

conrs 9mo ago

As an engineer, I want to believe this, but really - does it? Most folks use frameworks because it's easier than learning how to build it all yourself - things are done for you instead. This niche is now getting eroded by AI and low-code substantially. Couple that with my experience maintaining frontends that are far too complex for their use cases - e.g. do we really need SPA's, state sync, and reusable components for our admin tool that doesn't reuse components? This leads me to think there's been bloat here for at least a decade. So, while vibe coding will also lead to bloat, it's easier to work with, and arguably higher value than paying for a specific framework. It's a tragedy in life that things that are useful don't always get valued, instead being used as a stepping stone for progress, but I'm not sure that has a solution.

mattgreenrocks 9mo ago
Webdev has overvalued DX to the detriment the user experience for the past 10-15 years. A correction has been long overdue.

wiseowise 9mo ago

CSS is foundational. Tailwind is not.

manuelmoreale 9mo ago

I’m sorry for what’s happening to Tailwind, it clearly sucks, but a library like that is definitely not a key piece of foundational web tech the same way bootstrap and jquery weren’t.

satvikpendem 9mo ago

> key piece of foundational web tech is staring down unsustainability This must be satire. CSS is what's actually foundational; literally, a foundation upon which Tailwind was built.

mattgreenrocks 9mo ago
It's a key component for many webdevs even if it isn't literally foundational.

mikeg8 9mo ago

“Foundational” seems a bit overkill here. There is nothing foundational about it – it’s a convenience tool, albeit a very good one. AI is disruptive technology - like other tech innovations before it, there will be casualties to incumbents. If anything, this just shows how small businesses with need to be more creative when establishing moats and sustainability in this new landscape.

paxys 9mo ago

This "key piece of foundational web tech" was released 5 years ago and gained prominence maybe 2-3 years ago. Let's not exaggerate its impact. We were perfectly fine before Tailwind and will be fine after it.

Hammershaft 9mo ago
We were not fine before Tailwind, we aren't fine now, and we won't be fine after it until the day we finally recognize that CSS is a terrible foundational standard that deserves to be replaced.
- manuelmoreale 9mo ago
  > deserves to be replaced Replaced by what exactly? Also, when was the last time a foundational piece of tech powering of the web got replaced by something entirely different? Also who has decided that CSS is a "terrible foundational standard"?

philipwhiuk 9mo ago

I've never used Tailwind. I guess it's just an alternative to Bootstrap from the docs? There's plenty of alternative CSS frameworks. I can absolutely see why it's difficult to monetize.