6 ms·

Ironic that a steak is one of the three things showing up on the landing page. Is that the beef lobby money coming in? I enjoy an occasional steak but if the g

Ironic that a steak is one of the three things showing up on the landing page. Is that the beef lobby money coming in? I enjoy an occasional steak but if the goal is to improve diet of masses, it’s not the food I’d put at the center.

_dark_matter_ 9mo ago
Whole milk, cheese, and steak are not the usual foods I associate with health. Unfortunately this is not backed by scientific evidence.
- badc0ffee 9mo ago
  Red meat has a link to colorectal cancer.
- CompoundEyes 9mo ago
  I visited a heart doctor at Duke research medical center a few years back. His comments then were that dairy products were the most inflammatory foods for humans and a major contributor to heart disease by gunking up our bloodstreams.
Finnucane 9mo ago
RFKjr, the guy who feeds roadkill to his brain worm, thinks more saturated fat = good, 'seed oil' = bad.
- overgard 9mo ago
  RFKjr is generally an idiot, but saturated fat = good, seed oil = bad is actually correct. For instance: https://health.clevelandclinic.org/seed-oils-are-they-actually-toxic https://health.clevelandclinic.org/seed-oils-are-they-actual... Saturated fats are good because they're more stable than poly-unsaturated fats for instance. If you do consume a seed oil (which you really shouldn't -- there's no benefit), you should get a cold-pressed one. But that would be more expensive, so if you're paying more you might as well just get something good like avacado oil or coconut oil.
  - Finnucane 9mo ago
    "inflammation"! It's always "inflammation". What a crock.
    - overgard 9mo ago
      You want more inflammation? Inflammation is a real thing you can measure in the body, you know. (C Reactive Protein for instance). It's behind a lot of diseases. The reason WHY it's "always" inflammation is because the standard american diet CREATES a lot of inflammation. You'll probably have to worry about hearing that buzzword a lot less if people ate better..
  - everdrive 9mo ago
    This is a great example of how harming your own credibility can damage an otherwise correct and uncontroversial message. RFK Jr. has surrounded himself in controversy, and that controversy is really dominating a lot of this conversation and drowning out the message. Given how he's acted, I don't blame anyone for being skeptical of him, even if this particular food pyramid seems to be a good move that would itself be uncontroversial if provided by a different messenger.
    - overgard 9mo ago
      True, but, I think this is also an important lesson in considering the arguments not just a source. Nobody is ever 100% right or 100% wrong, and just leaning on arguments of authority is lazy thinking.
  - BeetleB 9mo ago
    Just Google "seed oils health" and look at the reputable results (Cleveland Clinic, various universities, Mayo Clinic, etc), and you'll see opinions across the board. Some say "Bad". Some say "Not bad". Some say "Unsure". Jury is still out on this one. And I think lumping all seed oils into one category isn't helping. Maybe canola oil is OK and sesame oil is not. Or vice versa.
    - 9mo ago
deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]
bobbylarrybobby 9mo ago
Steak’s not great for you, but in moderation is probably a better source of calories than refined grains, which should be treated more or less the same as candy.
overgard 9mo ago
High protein, nutrient dense. Definitely want to get grass-fed or pasture raised though. Shouldn't eat it all the time because it has a high calorie content, but steak isn't bad. They're probably showing a steak to indicate that eating meat is good, not just steak in general. Keto and carnivore diets have been shown to be pretty good for people with inflammatory conditions.
- tracker1 9mo ago
  Worth noting that ruminants have less variance between "good diets" and "bad diets" for the animals than other animal protein sources. IE: you're better off with a grain fed steak than an unnaturally fed non-ruminant animal. As to the calories, yes calories count, but the fact that it is calorie dense doesn't necessarily mean you should avoid it so much as be aware if you are mixing sources and having excessive meals. I know a lot of people on carnivore diets for inflammatory and diabetic control and the total calorie intake is less of an issue in those cases. Even with a pound of steak and a dozen eggs a day, weight loss is still happening for overweight diabetics on carnivore diets. Just meat is very sating and impossible for most people to overeat in practice... at least from my own experience and exposure. The relative mono diet also helps with this.
  - overgard 9mo ago
    Yeah, I agree, I'm not really a calorie counter. (I tend to get irritated by the "a calorie is a calorie" folk because nutrient quality is the most important thing). It's occasionally worth paying attention to calories with some foods though, like bacon or whatnot because it's very easy to eat a small volume but a lot of calories.
    - tracker1 9mo ago
      My advice in the various keto-carnivore and diabetic groups I'm in is to concentrate on getting used to the diet first and only start counting calories after a prolonged (months long) stall or gaining weight for multiple weeks. It's too easy to obsess, and I've experienced times where I'll stall when not eating enough more than eating too much when I'm eating clean. I have digestive issues from Trulicity/Ozempic and have a hard time eating enough, and my metabolism is highly dysfunctional... If I eat 1500 calories a day, about my natural hunger level at this point, I won't lose anything, but if I eat closer to 3000-3400/day, I will lose weight. It seems counter-intuitive but it's true.
siliconc0w 9mo ago
"In over 24,000 participants from the NHANES study, high saturated fatty acid intake was associated with an 8% increase in all cause mortality risk. A meta-analysis with over 1,100,000 total participants showed that high intake of saturated fats was also correlated to a 10% increase in coronary heart disease mortality risk" (https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCRESAHA.118.314038 https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCRESAHA.118.31403...) (there is an argument for why this shouldn't apply to grass-fed meat but that is an extremely small minority of meat sold)
- tracker1 9mo ago
  survey based study, correlation is not causation, and correlated affects not separable from other biases.
  - siliconc0w 9mo ago
    that is an impossible standard to apply to diet-based research which is incredibly expensive to otherwise study (e.g, you need a metabolic ward and at that point you'd complain about small N). We know saturated fat increases LDL, we know LDL contributes to CVD. This is still an area of active research and there are small populations of people that don't accept the consensus but it is still very much best-practice keep your LDL low.
    - tracker1 9mo ago
      See Minnesota asylum study... Come up with something resembling that quality that says otherwise.
mcswell 9mo ago
If Lysenko Jr wants us all to eat steaks, he should get to work on either eliminating ticks, or creating a cure for alphagal (alpha galactose) allergy transmitted by many ticks. I've had to stop eating beef (my wife gives me a little bite of her steak once in awhile), along with lamb and pork (pork seems to be less of a problem than beef, but I still have to eat it in moderation). In case you're not familiar with this allergy, it doesn't behave like other food allergies: instead of getting instant symptoms, it hits you hours later, making it hard to figure out why you suddenly have hives---unless you already know about alpha gal.
- CGMthrowaway 9mo ago
  I'm sure the government is trying. The government weaponized alpha-gal in the first place.
- tracker1 9mo ago
  That's rough... I have issues when I eat legumes and wheat... I still like pasta and pretty much had peanut butter every day of my life up to a few years ago. When I manage to stick to a meat centered diet I do better... but it's easy to get off track in social circles.
- NickC25 9mo ago
  >he should get to work on either eliminating ticks, or creating a cure for alphagal Or he should just lobby to make high quality, lean, grass-fed steaks cheaper so everyone who wants to consume them can consume them. It's not currently cheap.
burkaman 9mo ago
The "scientific foundation" PDF does disclose several financial relationships with the National Cattlemen's Beef Association and other cow-related lobbyists.
rcpt 9mo ago
Obviously the beef lobby is involved. They are masters of public opinion and extremely good at what they do.
deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]
drstewart 9mo ago
https://food-guide.canada.ca/en/food-guide-snapshot/ https://food-guide.canada.ca/en/food-guide-snapshot/ What is the top thing shown on the plate here?
maerF0x0 9mo ago
Depends if it's eye of round or rib eye. I think the usual steak emoji is a porter house. All 3 of them have very different protein/fat ratios (and thus calories)
brightbeige 9mo ago
“Let them eat steak.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_them_eat_cake https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_them_eat_cake

_dark_matter_ 9mo ago

Whole milk, cheese, and steak are not the usual foods I associate with health. Unfortunately this is not backed by scientific evidence.

badc0ffee 9mo ago
Red meat has a link to colorectal cancer.
CompoundEyes 9mo ago
I visited a heart doctor at Duke research medical center a few years back. His comments then were that dairy products were the most inflammatory foods for humans and a major contributor to heart disease by gunking up our bloodstreams.

Finnucane 9mo ago

RFKjr, the guy who feeds roadkill to his brain worm, thinks more saturated fat = good, 'seed oil' = bad.

overgard 9mo ago
RFKjr is generally an idiot, but saturated fat = good, seed oil = bad is actually correct. For instance: https://health.clevelandclinic.org/seed-oils-are-they-actually-toxic https://health.clevelandclinic.org/seed-oils-are-they-actual... Saturated fats are good because they're more stable than poly-unsaturated fats for instance. If you do consume a seed oil (which you really shouldn't -- there's no benefit), you should get a cold-pressed one. But that would be more expensive, so if you're paying more you might as well just get something good like avacado oil or coconut oil.
- Finnucane 9mo ago
  "inflammation"! It's always "inflammation". What a crock.
  - overgard 9mo ago
    You want more inflammation? Inflammation is a real thing you can measure in the body, you know. (C Reactive Protein for instance). It's behind a lot of diseases. The reason WHY it's "always" inflammation is because the standard american diet CREATES a lot of inflammation. You'll probably have to worry about hearing that buzzword a lot less if people ate better..
- everdrive 9mo ago
  This is a great example of how harming your own credibility can damage an otherwise correct and uncontroversial message. RFK Jr. has surrounded himself in controversy, and that controversy is really dominating a lot of this conversation and drowning out the message. Given how he's acted, I don't blame anyone for being skeptical of him, even if this particular food pyramid seems to be a good move that would itself be uncontroversial if provided by a different messenger.
  - overgard 9mo ago
    True, but, I think this is also an important lesson in considering the arguments not just a source. Nobody is ever 100% right or 100% wrong, and just leaning on arguments of authority is lazy thinking.
- BeetleB 9mo ago
  Just Google "seed oils health" and look at the reputable results (Cleveland Clinic, various universities, Mayo Clinic, etc), and you'll see opinions across the board. Some say "Bad". Some say "Not bad". Some say "Unsure". Jury is still out on this one. And I think lumping all seed oils into one category isn't helping. Maybe canola oil is OK and sesame oil is not. Or vice versa.
  - 9mo ago

deleted 9mo ago

[deleted]

bobbylarrybobby 9mo ago

Steak’s not great for you, but in moderation is probably a better source of calories than refined grains, which should be treated more or less the same as candy.

overgard 9mo ago

High protein, nutrient dense. Definitely want to get grass-fed or pasture raised though. Shouldn't eat it all the time because it has a high calorie content, but steak isn't bad. They're probably showing a steak to indicate that eating meat is good, not just steak in general. Keto and carnivore diets have been shown to be pretty good for people with inflammatory conditions.

tracker1 9mo ago
Worth noting that ruminants have less variance between "good diets" and "bad diets" for the animals than other animal protein sources. IE: you're better off with a grain fed steak than an unnaturally fed non-ruminant animal. As to the calories, yes calories count, but the fact that it is calorie dense doesn't necessarily mean you should avoid it so much as be aware if you are mixing sources and having excessive meals. I know a lot of people on carnivore diets for inflammatory and diabetic control and the total calorie intake is less of an issue in those cases. Even with a pound of steak and a dozen eggs a day, weight loss is still happening for overweight diabetics on carnivore diets. Just meat is very sating and impossible for most people to overeat in practice... at least from my own experience and exposure. The relative mono diet also helps with this.
- overgard 9mo ago
  Yeah, I agree, I'm not really a calorie counter. (I tend to get irritated by the "a calorie is a calorie" folk because nutrient quality is the most important thing). It's occasionally worth paying attention to calories with some foods though, like bacon or whatnot because it's very easy to eat a small volume but a lot of calories.
  - tracker1 9mo ago
    My advice in the various keto-carnivore and diabetic groups I'm in is to concentrate on getting used to the diet first and only start counting calories after a prolonged (months long) stall or gaining weight for multiple weeks. It's too easy to obsess, and I've experienced times where I'll stall when not eating enough more than eating too much when I'm eating clean. I have digestive issues from Trulicity/Ozempic and have a hard time eating enough, and my metabolism is highly dysfunctional... If I eat 1500 calories a day, about my natural hunger level at this point, I won't lose anything, but if I eat closer to 3000-3400/day, I will lose weight. It seems counter-intuitive but it's true.

siliconc0w 9mo ago

"In over 24,000 participants from the NHANES study, high saturated fatty acid intake was associated with an 8% increase in all cause mortality risk. A meta-analysis with over 1,100,000 total participants showed that high intake of saturated fats was also correlated to a 10% increase in coronary heart disease mortality risk" (https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCRESAHA.118.314038 https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCRESAHA.118.31403...) (there is an argument for why this shouldn't apply to grass-fed meat but that is an extremely small minority of meat sold)

tracker1 9mo ago
survey based study, correlation is not causation, and correlated affects not separable from other biases.
- siliconc0w 9mo ago
  that is an impossible standard to apply to diet-based research which is incredibly expensive to otherwise study (e.g, you need a metabolic ward and at that point you'd complain about small N). We know saturated fat increases LDL, we know LDL contributes to CVD. This is still an area of active research and there are small populations of people that don't accept the consensus but it is still very much best-practice keep your LDL low.
  - tracker1 9mo ago
    See Minnesota asylum study... Come up with something resembling that quality that says otherwise.

mcswell 9mo ago

If Lysenko Jr wants us all to eat steaks, he should get to work on either eliminating ticks, or creating a cure for alphagal (alpha galactose) allergy transmitted by many ticks. I've had to stop eating beef (my wife gives me a little bite of her steak once in awhile), along with lamb and pork (pork seems to be less of a problem than beef, but I still have to eat it in moderation). In case you're not familiar with this allergy, it doesn't behave like other food allergies: instead of getting instant symptoms, it hits you hours later, making it hard to figure out why you suddenly have hives---unless you already know about alpha gal.

CGMthrowaway 9mo ago
I'm sure the government is trying. The government weaponized alpha-gal in the first place.
tracker1 9mo ago
That's rough... I have issues when I eat legumes and wheat... I still like pasta and pretty much had peanut butter every day of my life up to a few years ago. When I manage to stick to a meat centered diet I do better... but it's easy to get off track in social circles.
NickC25 9mo ago
>he should get to work on either eliminating ticks, or creating a cure for alphagal Or he should just lobby to make high quality, lean, grass-fed steaks cheaper so everyone who wants to consume them can consume them. It's not currently cheap.

burkaman 9mo ago

The "scientific foundation" PDF does disclose several financial relationships with the National Cattlemen's Beef Association and other cow-related lobbyists.

rcpt 9mo ago

Obviously the beef lobby is involved. They are masters of public opinion and extremely good at what they do.

deleted 9mo ago

[deleted]

drstewart 9mo ago

https://food-guide.canada.ca/en/food-guide-snapshot/ https://food-guide.canada.ca/en/food-guide-snapshot/ What is the top thing shown on the plate here?

maerF0x0 9mo ago

Depends if it's eye of round or rib eye. I think the usual steak emoji is a porter house. All 3 of them have very different protein/fat ratios (and thus calories)

brightbeige 9mo ago

“Let them eat steak.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_them_eat_cake https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_them_eat_cake