4 ms·

The article makes it seem worse than it really is. All they seem to be doing is moving that functionality from being the default to an option that you enable.

The article makes it seem worse than it really is. All they seem to be doing is moving that functionality from being the default to an option that you enable. Personally I heavily rely on the middle click to paste, especially with my docker workflows. Rather than having to click "CTRL+SHIFT+C" then "CTRL+SHIFT+V" every time, I just know whatever is highlighted will get pasted when I hit the middle click button. It's a subtle difference that saves maybe 1-2 seconds but combine that over the course of months and all of a sudden I've saved myself an hour with more efficient copy/paste.

jalk 9mo ago
I have it the opposite way. Moving my right hand from the keyboard to the mouse doesn’t save me time - so as with most things: YMMV
- _fat_santa 9mo ago
  If you're using something like vim or emacs then yeah I would agree with you but for something like docker commands, there's just no easy way to copy a specific container ID without using the mouse (if there is let me know lol). My logic is if your hand is already on the mouse, it's going to be faster to paste with a mouse than your keyboard.
  - vladvasiliu 9mo ago
    > for something like docker commands, there's just no easy way to copy a specific container ID without using the mouse Some terminals have a mode where you can move the cursor around the history, and allow searching / copying / pasting. Alacritty and tmux come to mind, others may also implement something similar.
    - WD-42 9mo ago
      It’s still annoying to move. The only way it’s practical is if you can store a regex to match container ids or whatever, and quickly fetch it
      - Y_Y 9mo ago
        I do something that, but just parse the output of `docker ps` or whatever. Since each line has the same format it's very straightforward.
      - fragmede 9mo ago
        oh heh I do docker ps -a | grep image_name_or_whatever | awk1 | pbcopy (or xclip on linux) (awk1 is an alias for awk "{print $1}" and I just have awk1-10 or whatever) to grab the container id and put it on the clipboard
- blacklion 9mo ago
  It is why I (right-handed) was tфught by my first boss on first job in 2000s to use left hand for the mouse: secondary hand for secondary task (I'm not designer, artist or pro-gamer, so keyboard is primary tool). Now I have a big problem with this: there is no good left-handed mouses on the market anymore, and symmetric mouses has right-handed buttons (and no thumb buttons like forward-backward or left-handed side). Buttons can be swapped in OS, but it messed up remote access like VNC or RDP to systems without swapped buttons... So, buttons must be swapped physically. No luck.
  - mikkupikku 9mo ago
    I would kill for a true ambi five-button mouse to replace my old Microsoft Intellimouse, but I've run into the same problem, they just don't seem to exist anymore. All five button mice on the market either have both buttons 4 and 5 on the left side for righties, or have a grotesquely unbalanced design in some other way.
    - arkh 9mo ago
      > I would kill for a true ambi five-button mouse to replace my old Microsoft Intellimouse, but I've run into the same problem, they just don't seem to exist anymore. I was going to say Steelseries Sensei but it looks like those have been discontinued.
    - cypherpunk666 9mo ago
      not enough buttons maybe but these have a version called "L LEFT" https://www.logitech.com/en-us/shop/p/m650-signature-wireless-mouse https://www.logitech.com/en-us/shop/p/m650-signature-wireles...
      - blacklion 9mo ago
        It has one problem: buttons not swapped physically! Yes, leftmost button is primary one (first), and rightmost is secondary (third). I have this one and use it, with software swapping, but each time I login to remote computer via RDP I need to un-swap in settings again and then back :-( It is striking, that Logitech forgot how to make proper left-handed mouse. Their older models (discontinued for long time) were perfectly Ok! Also, it very small for my hand. But better than nothing.
- orev 9mo ago
  Having mouse paste as an option doesn’t remove the fact that keyboard paste is also an option, so that’s really immaterial to the topic.
- bluGill 9mo ago
  Are you sure? Have you actually timed this, or are you just using your subjective impression of time. In Human factors engineering we have known for decades that some things that seem faster are really slower when you time it. We are taught early to never trust what someone says about time, always find an objective way to measure it.
- BeetleB 9mo ago
  Well, I usually use the mouse to select text. And then I usually use the mouse to put the cursor precisely where I need to paste. So even in a Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V workflow, I'm using the mouse as much.
ZeroConcerns 9mo ago
Well, the source article is from El Reg, where objectivity is something to eventually strive for, but if it gets in the way of clicks, facts are definitely not a friend. And, somehow, that strategy seems to keep working decade after decade. Yeah, I don't get it either...
- robin_reala 9mo ago
  After I’d been in the firing line for a couple of Reg articles I started realising that yes, they don’t let much stand in the way of a good story. They still write a good story though, it’s just slightly more tenuously tethered to reality than I’d originally imagined.
  - chuckadams 9mo ago
    At least you know what you're getting with El Reg, unlike Very Serious Publications written for Very Serious People. The average article in CIO is also densely-packed bullshit, just polished up more.
- cykros 9mo ago
  It IS labeled "Opinion" in their defense... But yea, El Reg is never where you go for objectivity.
nialv7 9mo ago
Not a "normal" option though. They plan to hide it away inside `gsettings` so only power user who already knows about middle-click paste will be able to find it and enable it. This completely destroys discoverability.
- AshamedCaptain 9mo ago
  And a couple years later it is removed as only a minority used it.
yndoendo 9mo ago
I use both because they use to different software registries to store the information. This allows the CTRL+C content to be different than the middle mouse highlight. I cannot stand the Windows middle mouse user experience and always prefer the middle highlight and paste method.
- formerly_proven 9mo ago
  I find having two clipboards at the same time to be super handy and I literally use it all the time. Yes, KDE also has a clipboard manager that allows me to do Meta+V and paste from history, but I use the two clipboards way more frequently and it is easier/faster to, anyway. (Formally, it makes handwavy sense: Having a clipboard with a history is basically a pushdown automaton, but having two of these in one box is not a PDA any more - it's something categorically more powerful, equivalent to a turing machine iirc).
  - YeGoblynQueenne 9mo ago
    >> I find having two clipboards at the same time to be super handy and I literally use it all the time. Wouldn't it be great if we could have multiple named registers that we could paste from and even modify? (vim enters the chat)
- pjmlp 9mo ago
  You can customise it via Powertoys or some other utilities, though.
nottorp 9mo ago
Gnome has options?
hagbard_c 9mo ago
Gnome options have a habit of disappearing. I've followed the project from its conception to the current iteration, used v1 and v2 interchangeably with KDE and eventually moved to Xmonad with whatever applications I need. Gnome 1 was hackish and geeky, Gnome 2 polished off the hackishness and turned an ugly but promising duckling into a fully-functional duck. Then came v3 and with that the opinionated paring-down of options started for real. It became almost obligatory to install one or more 'gnome tweaks' tools to make things work as they used to. Strangely enough this quest for 'simplicity' has forced many Gnome users to (re)turn to hackish tools like gnome-tweaks to make their computers works like they want as opposed to the way the Gnome team insists they should work.
- YeGoblynQueenne 9mo ago
  That's a very Windows-y/ Apple-y way to treat one's users. Disappoint. I use KDE though.
sliken 9mo ago
Sure. But it's a depreciation and there's numerous similar settings that are only available by tweaking settings manually or using gnome-tweaks. Right now nearly every linux app supports select with the left button and paste with the middle. It's fast, useful, doesn't require a keyboard, etc. Amusingly I've seen various logins block control-v, but middle click works. God forbid you use a password safe with your bank login. When you use gnome-tweaks there's a ton of "WARNING you may break things" and of course anything off the default path is likely to receive zero testing. Personally I find middle click to paste one of the differentiators between MacOS, Windows, and Linux. I'm pretty surprised it's not more common. I was amused the iterm2 added select without having to type control-c.

jalk 9mo ago

I have it the opposite way. Moving my right hand from the keyboard to the mouse doesn’t save me time - so as with most things: YMMV

_fat_santa 9mo ago
If you're using something like vim or emacs then yeah I would agree with you but for something like docker commands, there's just no easy way to copy a specific container ID without using the mouse (if there is let me know lol). My logic is if your hand is already on the mouse, it's going to be faster to paste with a mouse than your keyboard.
- vladvasiliu 9mo ago
  > for something like docker commands, there's just no easy way to copy a specific container ID without using the mouse Some terminals have a mode where you can move the cursor around the history, and allow searching / copying / pasting. Alacritty and tmux come to mind, others may also implement something similar.
  - WD-42 9mo ago
    It’s still annoying to move. The only way it’s practical is if you can store a regex to match container ids or whatever, and quickly fetch it
    - Y_Y 9mo ago
      I do something that, but just parse the output of `docker ps` or whatever. Since each line has the same format it's very straightforward.
    - fragmede 9mo ago
      oh heh I do docker ps -a | grep image_name_or_whatever | awk1 | pbcopy (or xclip on linux) (awk1 is an alias for awk "{print $1}" and I just have awk1-10 or whatever) to grab the container id and put it on the clipboard
blacklion 9mo ago
It is why I (right-handed) was tфught by my first boss on first job in 2000s to use left hand for the mouse: secondary hand for secondary task (I'm not designer, artist or pro-gamer, so keyboard is primary tool). Now I have a big problem with this: there is no good left-handed mouses on the market anymore, and symmetric mouses has right-handed buttons (and no thumb buttons like forward-backward or left-handed side). Buttons can be swapped in OS, but it messed up remote access like VNC or RDP to systems without swapped buttons... So, buttons must be swapped physically. No luck.
- mikkupikku 9mo ago
  I would kill for a true ambi five-button mouse to replace my old Microsoft Intellimouse, but I've run into the same problem, they just don't seem to exist anymore. All five button mice on the market either have both buttons 4 and 5 on the left side for righties, or have a grotesquely unbalanced design in some other way.
  - arkh 9mo ago
    > I would kill for a true ambi five-button mouse to replace my old Microsoft Intellimouse, but I've run into the same problem, they just don't seem to exist anymore. I was going to say Steelseries Sensei but it looks like those have been discontinued.
  - cypherpunk666 9mo ago
    not enough buttons maybe but these have a version called "L LEFT" https://www.logitech.com/en-us/shop/p/m650-signature-wireless-mouse https://www.logitech.com/en-us/shop/p/m650-signature-wireles...
    - blacklion 9mo ago
      It has one problem: buttons not swapped physically! Yes, leftmost button is primary one (first), and rightmost is secondary (third). I have this one and use it, with software swapping, but each time I login to remote computer via RDP I need to un-swap in settings again and then back :-( It is striking, that Logitech forgot how to make proper left-handed mouse. Their older models (discontinued for long time) were perfectly Ok! Also, it very small for my hand. But better than nothing.
orev 9mo ago
Having mouse paste as an option doesn’t remove the fact that keyboard paste is also an option, so that’s really immaterial to the topic.
bluGill 9mo ago
Are you sure? Have you actually timed this, or are you just using your subjective impression of time. In Human factors engineering we have known for decades that some things that seem faster are really slower when you time it. We are taught early to never trust what someone says about time, always find an objective way to measure it.
BeetleB 9mo ago
Well, I usually use the mouse to select text. And then I usually use the mouse to put the cursor precisely where I need to paste. So even in a Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V workflow, I'm using the mouse as much.

ZeroConcerns 9mo ago

Well, the source article is from El Reg, where objectivity is something to eventually strive for, but if it gets in the way of clicks, facts are definitely not a friend. And, somehow, that strategy seems to keep working decade after decade. Yeah, I don't get it either...

robin_reala 9mo ago
After I’d been in the firing line for a couple of Reg articles I started realising that yes, they don’t let much stand in the way of a good story. They still write a good story though, it’s just slightly more tenuously tethered to reality than I’d originally imagined.
- chuckadams 9mo ago
  At least you know what you're getting with El Reg, unlike Very Serious Publications written for Very Serious People. The average article in CIO is also densely-packed bullshit, just polished up more.
cykros 9mo ago
It IS labeled "Opinion" in their defense... But yea, El Reg is never where you go for objectivity.

nialv7 9mo ago

Not a "normal" option though. They plan to hide it away inside `gsettings` so only power user who already knows about middle-click paste will be able to find it and enable it. This completely destroys discoverability.

AshamedCaptain 9mo ago
And a couple years later it is removed as only a minority used it.

yndoendo 9mo ago

I use both because they use to different software registries to store the information. This allows the CTRL+C content to be different than the middle mouse highlight. I cannot stand the Windows middle mouse user experience and always prefer the middle highlight and paste method.

formerly_proven 9mo ago
I find having two clipboards at the same time to be super handy and I literally use it all the time. Yes, KDE also has a clipboard manager that allows me to do Meta+V and paste from history, but I use the two clipboards way more frequently and it is easier/faster to, anyway. (Formally, it makes handwavy sense: Having a clipboard with a history is basically a pushdown automaton, but having two of these in one box is not a PDA any more - it's something categorically more powerful, equivalent to a turing machine iirc).
- YeGoblynQueenne 9mo ago
  >> I find having two clipboards at the same time to be super handy and I literally use it all the time. Wouldn't it be great if we could have multiple named registers that we could paste from and even modify? (vim enters the chat)
pjmlp 9mo ago
You can customise it via Powertoys or some other utilities, though.

nottorp 9mo ago

Gnome has options?

hagbard_c 9mo ago

Gnome options have a habit of disappearing. I've followed the project from its conception to the current iteration, used v1 and v2 interchangeably with KDE and eventually moved to Xmonad with whatever applications I need. Gnome 1 was hackish and geeky, Gnome 2 polished off the hackishness and turned an ugly but promising duckling into a fully-functional duck. Then came v3 and with that the opinionated paring-down of options started for real. It became almost obligatory to install one or more 'gnome tweaks' tools to make things work as they used to. Strangely enough this quest for 'simplicity' has forced many Gnome users to (re)turn to hackish tools like gnome-tweaks to make their computers works like they want as opposed to the way the Gnome team insists they should work.

YeGoblynQueenne 9mo ago
That's a very Windows-y/ Apple-y way to treat one's users. Disappoint. I use KDE though.

sliken 9mo ago

Sure. But it's a depreciation and there's numerous similar settings that are only available by tweaking settings manually or using gnome-tweaks. Right now nearly every linux app supports select with the left button and paste with the middle. It's fast, useful, doesn't require a keyboard, etc. Amusingly I've seen various logins block control-v, but middle click works. God forbid you use a password safe with your bank login. When you use gnome-tweaks there's a ton of "WARNING you may break things" and of course anything off the default path is likely to receive zero testing. Personally I find middle click to paste one of the differentiators between MacOS, Windows, and Linux. I'm pretty surprised it's not more common. I was amused the iterm2 added select without having to type control-c.