4 ms·

> So after rent you're left with what, 1860 euro? Good luck getting through the month with that money in Berlin. I’m confused. Is Berlin more expensive than I

by Muromec 10mo ago

> So after rent you're left with what, 1860 euro? Good luck getting through the month with that money in Berlin. I’m confused. Is Berlin more expensive than I think it is or you never cook yourself? ~~~Add: how do manage to pay more than 50% in effective taxes?~~~

myk9001 10mo ago
Where is more than 50% coming from? If you aren't married your effective tax rate is at 42% (tax plus social deductions which aren't technically taxes). Tons of tax calculators available online, see for yourself. > you never cook yourself? I do cook but it's not like groceries are free. And what about saving for an emergency fund, a downpayment, a vacation, a new PC, laptop, phone. Or, god forbid, a car? Do you feel safe and stress-free paying 51% of your take home comp just for rent? And keep in mind, 80K eur is top 1-5% salary. The overwhelming majority doesn't make that much.
- Muromec 10mo ago
  Sorry, I misread 80k p/a for 8k monthly. You have a point. I would not get two bedroom two bathroom apartment for myself alone however. Or live in Berlin for that matter. Few years ago in Holland it was something like 100k salary == mortgage for 500k house. No downpayment, 2k monthly. Having a sweet 30% reduction of taxable salary was very nice, otherwive learn sone cooking and get an income-generating partner to top it up. Now after layoffs and AI-bullshit depressing wages it doesn't sound nice at all and node of us is in IT is Mr. Fancy anymore. And of course, mandatory -- don't go to western europe, everything is expensive, locals are racist, taxes are high and the weather is bad.
  - myk9001 10mo ago
    > Few years ago in Holland it was something like 100k salary == mortgage for 500k house. No downpayment, 2k monthly. Would it be wrong to think that the borrower would repay a potential downpayment a few times over to the bank? How much smaller that 2k mortgage payment would be with a 20% downpayment? And how much larger the share going towards the mortgage body would be? If only the borrower's comp was just big enough to let them save for that downpayment. Don't know about you, but to me it sounds almost as if the system was rigged against the worker, to redistribute wealth away from them and into the hands of employers and bankers.
yc-kraln 10mo ago
What costs are you calculating with that, net of taxes and rent, you can't survive as a single or even couple on 1800€+ in Berlin? Like the median income here is extremely low, that salary puts you in the top 10%. Help me understand because this doesn't make sense at all to me--context: living in Berlin the last 13 years
- Muromec 10mo ago
  Not me. I guess the GP wants to save 1k a month in case the nuclear war happens and drives a car to eat kebabs for breakfast, lunch and dinner. That sounds about right for American, so the saving are going towards health issues down the line. /s
  - myk9001 10mo ago
    And GP guesses your comment might be using humor as a coping mechanism. I'm not American, the question was why Europe can't keep talent ("talent" doesn't really include me). Well, the compensation is just depressing. And as that person from Ireland pointed out, all the talk about worker protections is barely more than fairy tales (maybe not in the Netherlands, idk). Were we looking at 120 instead of 80, deciding between Europe's quality of life and pursuing career and money in the US would a real tough dilemma. With 80 just enough to pay rent and for groceries... Saving a thousand a month (a wild sum!) gets you to a 20% downpayment on a 500K home in just 8 years...
    - Muromec 10mo ago
      I got it that you were talking about the real situation and you personally have to live with flatmates while making 80k p/a, but it turns out you don't even live in Germany. My feeling are hurt by this and the fact that your math is not mathing really (what 20% downpayment?).
      - myk9001 10mo ago
        I don't feel like discussing my personal situation on the Internet. And was careful not to imply otherwise. That said, I was considering relocating to Germany and researching the country as best I could. I do prefer European lifestyle, but the salaries are just a non-starter. You can easily check the numbers I give though. Any specific mistakes there? Btw, why are you so defensive about the fact comp is so low in Europe? > your math is not mathing really (what 20% downpayment?). > what 20% downpayment? 20% downpayment is generally expected by German banks if you want to take out a mortgage. Don't take my word for it, check yourself. 500K Eur x 0.2 / (12 * 1K Eur) = 8.3 years. You implied that saving 1K a month is some absurd goal. I'm trying to show that's tablestakes if you hope to ever own a home.

by Muromec 10mo ago

myk9001 10mo ago

Where is more than 50% coming from? If you aren't married your effective tax rate is at 42% (tax plus social deductions which aren't technically taxes). Tons of tax calculators available online, see for yourself. > you never cook yourself? I do cook but it's not like groceries are free. And what about saving for an emergency fund, a downpayment, a vacation, a new PC, laptop, phone. Or, god forbid, a car? Do you feel safe and stress-free paying 51% of your take home comp just for rent? And keep in mind, 80K eur is top 1-5% salary. The overwhelming majority doesn't make that much.

Muromec 10mo ago
Sorry, I misread 80k p/a for 8k monthly. You have a point. I would not get two bedroom two bathroom apartment for myself alone however. Or live in Berlin for that matter. Few years ago in Holland it was something like 100k salary == mortgage for 500k house. No downpayment, 2k monthly. Having a sweet 30% reduction of taxable salary was very nice, otherwive learn sone cooking and get an income-generating partner to top it up. Now after layoffs and AI-bullshit depressing wages it doesn't sound nice at all and node of us is in IT is Mr. Fancy anymore. And of course, mandatory -- don't go to western europe, everything is expensive, locals are racist, taxes are high and the weather is bad.
- myk9001 10mo ago
  > Few years ago in Holland it was something like 100k salary == mortgage for 500k house. No downpayment, 2k monthly. Would it be wrong to think that the borrower would repay a potential downpayment a few times over to the bank? How much smaller that 2k mortgage payment would be with a 20% downpayment? And how much larger the share going towards the mortgage body would be? If only the borrower's comp was just big enough to let them save for that downpayment. Don't know about you, but to me it sounds almost as if the system was rigged against the worker, to redistribute wealth away from them and into the hands of employers and bankers.

yc-kraln 10mo ago

What costs are you calculating with that, net of taxes and rent, you can't survive as a single or even couple on 1800€+ in Berlin? Like the median income here is extremely low, that salary puts you in the top 10%. Help me understand because this doesn't make sense at all to me--context: living in Berlin the last 13 years

Muromec 10mo ago
Not me. I guess the GP wants to save 1k a month in case the nuclear war happens and drives a car to eat kebabs for breakfast, lunch and dinner. That sounds about right for American, so the saving are going towards health issues down the line. /s
- myk9001 10mo ago
  And GP guesses your comment might be using humor as a coping mechanism. I'm not American, the question was why Europe can't keep talent ("talent" doesn't really include me). Well, the compensation is just depressing. And as that person from Ireland pointed out, all the talk about worker protections is barely more than fairy tales (maybe not in the Netherlands, idk). Were we looking at 120 instead of 80, deciding between Europe's quality of life and pursuing career and money in the US would a real tough dilemma. With 80 just enough to pay rent and for groceries... Saving a thousand a month (a wild sum!) gets you to a 20% downpayment on a 500K home in just 8 years...
  - Muromec 10mo ago
    I got it that you were talking about the real situation and you personally have to live with flatmates while making 80k p/a, but it turns out you don't even live in Germany. My feeling are hurt by this and the fact that your math is not mathing really (what 20% downpayment?).
    - myk9001 10mo ago
      I don't feel like discussing my personal situation on the Internet. And was careful not to imply otherwise. That said, I was considering relocating to Germany and researching the country as best I could. I do prefer European lifestyle, but the salaries are just a non-starter. You can easily check the numbers I give though. Any specific mistakes there? Btw, why are you so defensive about the fact comp is so low in Europe? > your math is not mathing really (what 20% downpayment?). > what 20% downpayment? 20% downpayment is generally expected by German banks if you want to take out a mortgage. Don't take my word for it, check yourself. 500K Eur x 0.2 / (12 * 1K Eur) = 8.3 years. You implied that saving 1K a month is some absurd goal. I'm trying to show that's tablestakes if you hope to ever own a home.