5 ms·

I would be incredibly curious if the mods could look into the stats of these political threads. I personally feel they are being manipulated at least through th

I would be incredibly curious if the mods could look into the stats of these political threads. I personally feel they are being manipulated at least through the voting system if not through active bot influence campaigns. It might be me being emotional about this and about seeing a country I looked up to becoming what it's becoming, but I just can't comprehend how some of the people in this otherwise great community can look at this and think it's the direction they want for their country.

happytoexplain 9mo ago
It's nuts - but I can only speak with anecdotes. The Americans around me are desperate to pull absolutely any lever that will slow the death of the American dream, and at this point even the "light" version of the dream is dying (work hard, be smart and a little lucky, spend on an education in a strong field, get a family and small property). Stats and experts be damned - that's what desperation is. In the specific case of those around me, they are seeing huge numbers of Indian tech workers, local and offshore, displacing them. That would just be normal competition, except that they are all of the same foreign culture, which makes them an easily identifiable "out group". Multiplying the indignity and perceived "un-American-ness", they exhibit attributes like nepotism, sycophancy, ineffective communication, and a willingness to work longer hours for less pay while producing horrible work. And these attributes are perceived by as desirable to unscrupulous short-term-thinking leadership. Of course this may exacerbate the problem (more offshoring).
- hippo22 9mo ago
  It's not "normal competition" to be displaced by immigrants in your own country. Allowing that is simply allowing the capitalist class to assault and weaken the labor class.
  - Muromec 9mo ago
    >It's not "normal competition" to be displaced by immigrants in your own country Is it? It's just free market deciding you are not needed. What's the problem with that? Are you against the free marker or something?
    - RealityVoid 9mo ago
      Nah, these are all just taking points to be used when it's convenient, discarded when it's not. You can't expect internal consistency.
      - Muromec 9mo ago
        Yeah, having to compete with institutional capital for house ownership here is fine, but them having to compete with people from a country where they speak foreign languages is not fair. The duality of libertarian thinking.
        happytoexplain 9mo ago
        I am against free market absolutism. I also think it's unrealistic to expect humans to put up with any and all examples of large foreign influxes that disrupt a person's local life/culture, as much as it would be nice for everybody to just be compatible with each other.
        palmotea 9mo ago
        > Yeah, having to compete with institutional capital for house ownership here is fine, but them having to compete with people from a country where they speak foreign languages is not fair. The duality of libertarian thinking. Any libertarian that's not extremely wealthy is stupid and was duped by propaganda. Also there's an important difference between "institutional capital buying houses" and immigration: the former is all invisible lawyers in the background (you'd have no idea without investigative journalism), and the latter can be much more palpable to your average guy on the street. IMHO, an extremely important parts of how present-day elites maintain power in our current capitalist system is how they use diffuse responsibility and misdirection to deal with threats to their interest.
  - ludicrousdispla 9mo ago
    And that is why elimination of the H1-B visa program has support from the left.
  - palmotea 9mo ago
    Exactly, I posted this quote elsewhere, but it's relevant here too: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/06/opinion/trump-presidential-power-nonprofits-ngos.html https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/06/opinion/trump-presidentia...: > Instead of comparing what is happening under Trump with the situations in Hungary, Turkey and Russia, Goldstone argued that conditions in the United States are, >> ironically, more like what happened in Venezuela, where after a century of reasonably prosperous democratic government, decades of elite self-serving neglect of popular welfare led to the election of Hugo Chávez with a mandate to get rid of the old elites and create a populist dictatorship. >> I find that decades-long trends in the U.S. — stagnating wages for non-college-educated males, sharply declining social mobility, fierce political polarization among the elites and a government sinking deeper and deeper into debt — are earmarks of countries heading into revolutionary upheaval. >> Just as the French monarchy, despite being the richest and archetypal monarchy, collapsed in the late 18th century because of popular immiseration, elite conflicts and state debts, so the U.S. today, despite being the richest and archetypal democratic republic, is seeing its institutions come under attack today for a similar set of conditions. This is 100% the result of capitalist class overreach. They're fine with fucking over other people, but oh my how they whine when their interests are threatened. If they don't want to drive the country into the ground, they need to stop being so greedy. At the very minimum, the have-nots will eventually make sure they can no longer stay aloof from the pain, even if that means everyone is a little more worse off.
- anal_reactor 9mo ago
  The message "guys, it's really not that smart to let in a huge number of people from a completely different culture, this is going to be a problem" was completely ignored and labeled racist.
  - happytoexplain 9mo ago
    Yes, it's probably the left's single largest mistake in messaging in a hundred years. It's understandable, since so much of the right's take on this topic is in fact often more racist than pragmatic, but that's also a "loudest voice" problem, and the left has those voices too. I don't know how a country with the US's history and culture can even talk about this without those voices dominating the perceptual bandwidth. It's essentially impossible, I guess. And being ignored pushes more people into that tone. This is the vicious cycle that makes us incapable of electing anybody in the middle.
  - deleted 9mo ago
    [deleted]
lconnell962 9mo ago
Recent years have made me realize that as bad as reading political threads in online circles can be, it still does bring a greater ability to self-innoculate yourself to emotional influences than watching and listening to other groups editorialized political media. But yes, I also do wonder with these political topics on all online sites using text, votes, and comment trees what kind of things would become red flags about users if sites chose or were forced to make more metrics appear in them. "Lurker" votes, Estimated Geolocation or VPN use of commenters, anythings that could be shown in "suspect" topics even if not "bannable or confirmed" manipulation was happening. Or maybe just a politics filter. I know I have a bad habit of getting into reading these topics and their comments when my sanity would prefer I filter them out entirely.
entropyneur 9mo ago
The majority of American voters chose this at the most recent presidential elections. And immigration was the central issue, so that's exactly what most of them voted for. Not sure why you are surprised. If anything I find it notable how much this forum deviates from what I assume is the average view.
addandsubtract 9mo ago
Also curious how some political threads are allowed, while others are flagged right away.
- franktankbank 9mo ago
  Perhaps it has something to do with this topic being extremely relevant in tech.

happytoexplain 9mo ago

It's nuts - but I can only speak with anecdotes. The Americans around me are desperate to pull absolutely any lever that will slow the death of the American dream, and at this point even the "light" version of the dream is dying (work hard, be smart and a little lucky, spend on an education in a strong field, get a family and small property). Stats and experts be damned - that's what desperation is. In the specific case of those around me, they are seeing huge numbers of Indian tech workers, local and offshore, displacing them. That would just be normal competition, except that they are all of the same foreign culture, which makes them an easily identifiable "out group". Multiplying the indignity and perceived "un-American-ness", they exhibit attributes like nepotism, sycophancy, ineffective communication, and a willingness to work longer hours for less pay while producing horrible work. And these attributes are perceived by as desirable to unscrupulous short-term-thinking leadership. Of course this may exacerbate the problem (more offshoring).

hippo22 9mo ago
It's not "normal competition" to be displaced by immigrants in your own country. Allowing that is simply allowing the capitalist class to assault and weaken the labor class.
- Muromec 9mo ago
  >It's not "normal competition" to be displaced by immigrants in your own country Is it? It's just free market deciding you are not needed. What's the problem with that? Are you against the free marker or something?
  - RealityVoid 9mo ago
    Nah, these are all just taking points to be used when it's convenient, discarded when it's not. You can't expect internal consistency.
    - Muromec 9mo ago
      Yeah, having to compete with institutional capital for house ownership here is fine, but them having to compete with people from a country where they speak foreign languages is not fair. The duality of libertarian thinking.
      - happytoexplain 9mo ago
        I am against free market absolutism. I also think it's unrealistic to expect humans to put up with any and all examples of large foreign influxes that disrupt a person's local life/culture, as much as it would be nice for everybody to just be compatible with each other.
      - palmotea 9mo ago
        > Yeah, having to compete with institutional capital for house ownership here is fine, but them having to compete with people from a country where they speak foreign languages is not fair. The duality of libertarian thinking. Any libertarian that's not extremely wealthy is stupid and was duped by propaganda. Also there's an important difference between "institutional capital buying houses" and immigration: the former is all invisible lawyers in the background (you'd have no idea without investigative journalism), and the latter can be much more palpable to your average guy on the street. IMHO, an extremely important parts of how present-day elites maintain power in our current capitalist system is how they use diffuse responsibility and misdirection to deal with threats to their interest.
- ludicrousdispla 9mo ago
  And that is why elimination of the H1-B visa program has support from the left.
- palmotea 9mo ago
  Exactly, I posted this quote elsewhere, but it's relevant here too: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/06/opinion/trump-presidential-power-nonprofits-ngos.html https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/06/opinion/trump-presidentia...: > Instead of comparing what is happening under Trump with the situations in Hungary, Turkey and Russia, Goldstone argued that conditions in the United States are, >> ironically, more like what happened in Venezuela, where after a century of reasonably prosperous democratic government, decades of elite self-serving neglect of popular welfare led to the election of Hugo Chávez with a mandate to get rid of the old elites and create a populist dictatorship. >> I find that decades-long trends in the U.S. — stagnating wages for non-college-educated males, sharply declining social mobility, fierce political polarization among the elites and a government sinking deeper and deeper into debt — are earmarks of countries heading into revolutionary upheaval. >> Just as the French monarchy, despite being the richest and archetypal monarchy, collapsed in the late 18th century because of popular immiseration, elite conflicts and state debts, so the U.S. today, despite being the richest and archetypal democratic republic, is seeing its institutions come under attack today for a similar set of conditions. This is 100% the result of capitalist class overreach. They're fine with fucking over other people, but oh my how they whine when their interests are threatened. If they don't want to drive the country into the ground, they need to stop being so greedy. At the very minimum, the have-nots will eventually make sure they can no longer stay aloof from the pain, even if that means everyone is a little more worse off.
anal_reactor 9mo ago
The message "guys, it's really not that smart to let in a huge number of people from a completely different culture, this is going to be a problem" was completely ignored and labeled racist.
- happytoexplain 9mo ago
  Yes, it's probably the left's single largest mistake in messaging in a hundred years. It's understandable, since so much of the right's take on this topic is in fact often more racist than pragmatic, but that's also a "loudest voice" problem, and the left has those voices too. I don't know how a country with the US's history and culture can even talk about this without those voices dominating the perceptual bandwidth. It's essentially impossible, I guess. And being ignored pushes more people into that tone. This is the vicious cycle that makes us incapable of electing anybody in the middle.
- deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]

lconnell962 9mo ago

Recent years have made me realize that as bad as reading political threads in online circles can be, it still does bring a greater ability to self-innoculate yourself to emotional influences than watching and listening to other groups editorialized political media. But yes, I also do wonder with these political topics on all online sites using text, votes, and comment trees what kind of things would become red flags about users if sites chose or were forced to make more metrics appear in them. "Lurker" votes, Estimated Geolocation or VPN use of commenters, anythings that could be shown in "suspect" topics even if not "bannable or confirmed" manipulation was happening. Or maybe just a politics filter. I know I have a bad habit of getting into reading these topics and their comments when my sanity would prefer I filter them out entirely.

entropyneur 9mo ago

The majority of American voters chose this at the most recent presidential elections. And immigration was the central issue, so that's exactly what most of them voted for. Not sure why you are surprised. If anything I find it notable how much this forum deviates from what I assume is the average view.

addandsubtract 9mo ago

Also curious how some political threads are allowed, while others are flagged right away.

franktankbank 9mo ago
Perhaps it has something to do with this topic being extremely relevant in tech.