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"In a community like HN, I think it has a secondary value, as well, in that it provides well-intentioned posters with feedback that they are making a weak point

by atirip 14y ago

"In a community like HN, I think it has a secondary value, as well, in that it provides well-intentioned posters with feedback that they are making a weak point, or doing it in a way that is not contributory to the community." Dream on. Whenever I try to troll a bit (or let's say be flamboyant) I get upvotes. Sometimes massively. Whenever I present "unpopular but sincere opinion" I get downvoted, usually massively.

enraged_camel 14y ago
Exactly. There is a huge gap between how the system was designed to work and how it actually works. What upvoting is supposed to be: "Good post that adds a lot to the discussion." What it really is: "I agree with this guy." What downvoting is supposed to be: "Person is spamming, making a weak point or arguing in an inflammatory manner." What it really is: "You're wrong shut the hell up." This problem could be fixed if people were forced to give a reason for their upvotes and downvotes. Imagine if every time you click upvote, a small textbox appears that has a list of predefined options, such as "valid point" or "good contribution" or "i learned something". Similarly, every time you click downvote, it automatically takes you to the Reply page; if you don't reply, your downvote does not go through. This kind of transparency would encourage people to be more thoughtful when they cast their votes.
- schme 14y ago
  I recall reading somewhere (from HN) that upvoting as an agreement was allowed. Can't find the source though..
adaml_623 14y ago
You could point out some examples for us to evaluate?
- atirip 14y ago
  Why not. Here I'm serious and know what I'm talking: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4607657 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4607657 (-8) http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3698183 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3698183 (-2) http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1826775 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1826775 (-2) Here I'm flamboyantly trolling: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3360362 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3360362 (+8) http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3334634 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3334634 (+2) http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3116814 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3116814 (+6)
  - CKKim 14y ago
    Having read those, I'm pretty much on your side about the karma, but in each of the downvoted ones I can pick out a thing that definitely rubs people up the wrong way and can lead to downvotes if they already disagree with the content of the post. Firstly you begin with "No.", which many many folks on here find rude and arrogant, and I'm basically with them - plus I've read so many ranty unreasonable posts beginning with "No." that it begins to hoist a red flag - then you misspell "keyboard". Those kinds of things tip people over from "disagree" to "downvote". Second, "Do not ever bring PSD to me. Ever." - who are you talking to? Yes, I think we get it, but you must understand how rude it sounds. In this case I am sure that had you replied to the (sincere) follow up question then you'd have got some correcting upvotes. You didn't, so it looks like you're just ranting. Thirdly, typos: "something what", "get's". You don't get downvoted for typos, but when you're saying something like you were in that post you need to do so with authority. If you undermine that then it recontextualises the post and makes it seem like you're bullshitting. The problem that they all have though is TONE. You sound aggressive.

by atirip 14y ago

enraged_camel 14y ago

Exactly. There is a huge gap between how the system was designed to work and how it actually works. What upvoting is supposed to be: "Good post that adds a lot to the discussion." What it really is: "I agree with this guy." What downvoting is supposed to be: "Person is spamming, making a weak point or arguing in an inflammatory manner." What it really is: "You're wrong shut the hell up." This problem could be fixed if people were forced to give a reason for their upvotes and downvotes. Imagine if every time you click upvote, a small textbox appears that has a list of predefined options, such as "valid point" or "good contribution" or "i learned something". Similarly, every time you click downvote, it automatically takes you to the Reply page; if you don't reply, your downvote does not go through. This kind of transparency would encourage people to be more thoughtful when they cast their votes.

schme 14y ago
I recall reading somewhere (from HN) that upvoting as an agreement was allowed. Can't find the source though..

adaml_623 14y ago

You could point out some examples for us to evaluate?

atirip 14y ago
Why not. Here I'm serious and know what I'm talking: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4607657 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4607657 (-8) http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3698183 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3698183 (-2) http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1826775 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1826775 (-2) Here I'm flamboyantly trolling: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3360362 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3360362 (+8) http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3334634 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3334634 (+2) http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3116814 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3116814 (+6)
- CKKim 14y ago
  Having read those, I'm pretty much on your side about the karma, but in each of the downvoted ones I can pick out a thing that definitely rubs people up the wrong way and can lead to downvotes if they already disagree with the content of the post. Firstly you begin with "No.", which many many folks on here find rude and arrogant, and I'm basically with them - plus I've read so many ranty unreasonable posts beginning with "No." that it begins to hoist a red flag - then you misspell "keyboard". Those kinds of things tip people over from "disagree" to "downvote". Second, "Do not ever bring PSD to me. Ever." - who are you talking to? Yes, I think we get it, but you must understand how rude it sounds. In this case I am sure that had you replied to the (sincere) follow up question then you'd have got some correcting upvotes. You didn't, so it looks like you're just ranting. Thirdly, typos: "something what", "get's". You don't get downvoted for typos, but when you're saying something like you were in that post you need to do so with authority. If you undermine that then it recontextualises the post and makes it seem like you're bullshitting. The problem that they all have though is TONE. You sound aggressive.