4 ms·

IMHO EU politicians are way behind the EU public in this regard. They are incapable of thinking of Europe without USA and are terrified that it will hurt the ec

by mrtksn 10mo ago

IMHO EU politicians are way behind the EU public in this regard. They are incapable of thinking of Europe without USA and are terrified that it will hurt the economy or something. However the public is much more ready to break clean of US and endure the perceived short term pain for the perceived dignity and opportunities. Screw this up too and EU will lose all its mainstream pro-US politicians and they will all be replaced with extremes as long as those extremes promise getting rid of USA. Whatever Trump is doing its going to be as successful as his private business ventures. Europeans are vengeful, Tesla never recovered from Musks behavior. USA will also not recover, all those 2T market capitalization companies will have to start justifying those valuations without the EU market and likely without the rest of the world too because it will only accelerate China's influence in the other parts of the world as US will cement its position as dangerous imperialist that better stay away. All that capital that US has will mean nothing at war time, intellectual properties and royalties will cease to be valuable. If the EU rich flee to USA they will not be taking the factories with them, extremist war time governments will take away their properties. Relationships will be forged without US influence, working with Russia and Iran for energy and working with China will become much simpler as many of the issues between EU and these nations stem from USA's grip on Europe.

mongol 10mo ago
I am not sure if I read you right but if you mean that there will be significant grass roots efforts in Europe to boycott anything from the US, I think you are right.
- mrtksn 10mo ago
  Right, IMHO there will be significant boycott targeting anything US or anyone advocating for US. Those who love their iPhones may stay with the iPhones but they will vote in people who will get rid of iPhones and get forced to switch to Korean or Chinese brand without being too upset about it. Internet cables will be cut if that's necessary to get rid of US tech. Bank accounts will be frozen, data centers taken over and no one will pay attention to naysayers and those who preach profits and business opportunities. Trump and anything he stands for is just too repulsive for anyone in Europe already. Europe's relatively weak startup culture doesn't come from regulations, it's not like Italians demand lab grown meat and the French demand long working hours but their usurper doesn't allow them. It's quite the opposite, Europeans demand a life with dignity above everything else and Trump is the antithesis of it.
general1465 10mo ago
As a European I believe that USA taking over Greenland by force will trigger massive rally around the flag effect in Europe, will crack the jingoistic European nationalism and hasten federalization of Europe. I don't believe that there is going to be much cooperation with Russia, unless it will stop being imperialistic itself, which is unlikely. However Iran and China are on EU's naughty list only because USA want it to be so.
- dataflow 10mo ago
  If Europe isn't willing to send troops to Greenland, it's clearly already lost. Why are they not doing that already? If Europe wants to claim they can defend Greenland then this literally seems like the test.
  - georgemcbay 10mo ago
    Not sure what you're talking about here..? Europe (Denmark) has forces in Greenland currently. But Europe as a whole also has no chance to defend Greenland no matter what they do if the US really decides to take it by force. Europe has inadequate long distance power-projection to put up any kind of a fight there (if not being assisted by the US, which of course it wouldn't be in this case). I'm American, but this reply certainly isn't me being jingoistic or pro-American. I fucking hate what we are both doing and threatening under Trump with every fiber of my being and I think it ultimately is going to make America a far weaker failed empire within a world that is deeply unstabilized for no reason other than to stroke the ego of a malignant narcissist with no understanding of second order consequences.
    - dataflow 10mo ago
      What I'm saying is I think there's a decent chance the US wouldn't actually engage in significant combat over Greenland. What I think the US is betting on is that there simply won't be any meaningful military resistance at all. (They basically said exactly this.) Therefore, if Europe sent enough forces and indicated they would actually fight instead of capitulating, that would probably be their best bet at preventing Greenland from being annexed. Realistically, this needs to be more than whatever tiny(?) amount of forces Denmark already has there. They'd probably need assistance from other countries. You essentially need to be reading headlines about warships from some European countries heading to Greenland for this to have an effect, IMO.
soraminazuki 10mo ago
> Relationships will be forged without US influence, working with Russia and Iran for energy and working with China will become much simpler as many of the issues between EU and these nations stem from USA's grip on Europe. It doesn't make sense to cut ties with colonialists, only to buddy up to other colonialists. Instead, the remaining countries of the free world must urgently unite and do everything to protect the rule of law. And also possibly work with likeminded people in slipping democracies to prevent further destruction and harm.

by mrtksn 10mo ago

mongol 10mo ago

I am not sure if I read you right but if you mean that there will be significant grass roots efforts in Europe to boycott anything from the US, I think you are right.

mrtksn 10mo ago
Right, IMHO there will be significant boycott targeting anything US or anyone advocating for US. Those who love their iPhones may stay with the iPhones but they will vote in people who will get rid of iPhones and get forced to switch to Korean or Chinese brand without being too upset about it. Internet cables will be cut if that's necessary to get rid of US tech. Bank accounts will be frozen, data centers taken over and no one will pay attention to naysayers and those who preach profits and business opportunities. Trump and anything he stands for is just too repulsive for anyone in Europe already. Europe's relatively weak startup culture doesn't come from regulations, it's not like Italians demand lab grown meat and the French demand long working hours but their usurper doesn't allow them. It's quite the opposite, Europeans demand a life with dignity above everything else and Trump is the antithesis of it.

general1465 10mo ago

As a European I believe that USA taking over Greenland by force will trigger massive rally around the flag effect in Europe, will crack the jingoistic European nationalism and hasten federalization of Europe. I don't believe that there is going to be much cooperation with Russia, unless it will stop being imperialistic itself, which is unlikely. However Iran and China are on EU's naughty list only because USA want it to be so.

dataflow 10mo ago
If Europe isn't willing to send troops to Greenland, it's clearly already lost. Why are they not doing that already? If Europe wants to claim they can defend Greenland then this literally seems like the test.
- georgemcbay 10mo ago
  Not sure what you're talking about here..? Europe (Denmark) has forces in Greenland currently. But Europe as a whole also has no chance to defend Greenland no matter what they do if the US really decides to take it by force. Europe has inadequate long distance power-projection to put up any kind of a fight there (if not being assisted by the US, which of course it wouldn't be in this case). I'm American, but this reply certainly isn't me being jingoistic or pro-American. I fucking hate what we are both doing and threatening under Trump with every fiber of my being and I think it ultimately is going to make America a far weaker failed empire within a world that is deeply unstabilized for no reason other than to stroke the ego of a malignant narcissist with no understanding of second order consequences.
  - dataflow 10mo ago
    What I'm saying is I think there's a decent chance the US wouldn't actually engage in significant combat over Greenland. What I think the US is betting on is that there simply won't be any meaningful military resistance at all. (They basically said exactly this.) Therefore, if Europe sent enough forces and indicated they would actually fight instead of capitulating, that would probably be their best bet at preventing Greenland from being annexed. Realistically, this needs to be more than whatever tiny(?) amount of forces Denmark already has there. They'd probably need assistance from other countries. You essentially need to be reading headlines about warships from some European countries heading to Greenland for this to have an effect, IMO.

soraminazuki 10mo ago

> Relationships will be forged without US influence, working with Russia and Iran for energy and working with China will become much simpler as many of the issues between EU and these nations stem from USA's grip on Europe. It doesn't make sense to cut ties with colonialists, only to buddy up to other colonialists. Instead, the remaining countries of the free world must urgently unite and do everything to protect the rule of law. And also possibly work with likeminded people in slipping democracies to prevent further destruction and harm.