4 ms·

> I'd love to know what the justification for replacing them in the first place was. It isn't hard to see, tbh. Think about the controls in a Tesla from a few

by _ea1k 9mo ago

> I'd love to know what the justification for replacing them in the first place was. It isn't hard to see, tbh. Think about the controls in a Tesla from a few years ago. They had physical controls for drive selection, turn signals, cruise control/TACC, cruise control distances, volume, next and previous track, seat controls, and manual overrides for the automatic wipers. The things that were used a little less were on the touch screen, with automation attempting to mitigate the downsides of this. This largely consisted of climate, manual overrides for the automatic headlights, and things like suspension settings. So, what has VW made better here? Well, they have physical controls for turn signals, drive selection, volume, next and previous track, etc. They appear to use the touch screen for much of the climate control and entertainment settings, including appearing to retain the much maligned touch settings for seat heaters. I'm not convinced that this is better. By contrast, my Nissan has driving settings like lane centering and seat heater controls on physical buttons... right next to my left knee where they are nearly inaccessible while driving. TBH, the whole debate around this needs to be recentered around actual ergonomics and less around touch vs physical.

tensor 9mo ago
Yeah, I think Tesla from a few years ago was the sweet spot. A small number of multifunction physical buttons for all the things you need while driving. I've driven a number of cars over the years with a mess of physical buttons like VW is introducing, and the result is that I've never actually used them because it's too complicated to locate the right button while driving. So usually I either just don't use the features in those cars, or end up having to stop to figure how to adjust some basic ass thing.
amluto 9mo ago
> touch screen … climate The climate controls should be physical buttons. Touchscreen climate controls tend to be giant messes requiring multiple interactions and often (hi, Tesla!) have controls in unpredictable locations. And fine-tuning the climate while driving is not exactly unusual. Of course, physical buttons can be awful too. I’ve been in a Mercedes SUV where the A/C state is controlled by some bizarre split physical buttons and 100% of front passengers surveyed are entirely unable to confidently figure out what they do even after reading the test and contemplating for a while.
- dzhiurgis 9mo ago
  Changing temperature takes 0.5 seconds on Tesla. Yes you take eyes off the road. For 0.5 seconds. You can buy buttons if you have disability that makes it difficult to use touchscreens.
  - linkage 9mo ago
    For decades, people have been able to change the temperature in their vehicles in less time and without taking their eyes off the road. Why defend an obvious regression? Tesla fans sung the praises of other stupid ideas like the Highland's indicator buttons and the Plaid's 'yoke', both of which were silently shelved after buyer dissatisfaction.
    - dzhiurgis 9mo ago
      Yoke was a mistake for sure (and FWIW works perfectly in Cybertruck because of steer by wire), but most people liked indicator buttons. The reversal is purely because social media pressure by people who never tried it. > Why defend an obvious regression? Because it's not a regression. Whenever I use my older cars with manual controls I see no benefit. Most of the time I still have to look at it - it has a dial or little screen to know what exact temperature you are setting.
- sib 9mo ago
  >> The climate controls should be physical buttons. So, if I'm using physical buttons, how do I set the temperature to 24° (75° for US-folks) without looking away from the road? Or set the radio to 106.9MHz? Or the cruise control to 88km/h (55mph)? In all cases, I still need to look at an indicator.
  - amluto 9mo ago
    > So, if I'm using physical buttons, how do I set the temperature to 24° (75° for US-folks) without looking away from the road? You don’t. Instead you observe it’s a bit too warm and press the down button once or twice. Source: I used to do this regularly when I owned a car with excellent buttons. > Or set the radio to 106.9MHz? By pressing preset 6 by feel. Or by glancing for 1/4 second to find preset 6 (which is a clearly labeled button that never moves) and pressing it. > Or the cruise control to 88km/h (55mph)? By driving 55mph and pressing the stalk in the appropriate direction? This stuff was all worked out very nicely in the late 1980s by UX experts who put very serious effort into making cars with an excellent user experience.
ilamont 9mo ago
> By contrast, my Nissan has driving settings like lane centering and seat heater controls on physical buttons... right next to my left knee where they are nearly inaccessible while driving. I can beat that. 2011 Prius. USB-A port is inside the center console at the bottom of the back vertical interior panel. You have to lift the center console lid, move all of the crap you've stored inside the console away from the lower rear of the compartment to reach the port, then by feel (unless you want to turn your head 100 degrees to the right and look down while driving) attempt to slot the USB cable into the receptacle.
- mrWiz 9mo ago
  There's a strong argument that you should never be plugging in USB devices while driving but it's hard to argue that you shouldn't adjust the lane centering settings while in motion.
- jabroni_salad 9mo ago
  My old honda fit had one of those inside the glovebox. I believe you were meant to plug in a flash drive or ipod and leave it forever. It did not provide enough power to actually charge a battery.
  - ethagnawl 9mo ago
    Oh. That's interesting. I have a 2018 Fit and I've never been able to get the USB port in the center console to charge anything. I bought it used, so I just assumed it was broken and moved on to using an adapter in the cigarette lighter. I wonder if that's what's actually going on?
  - _ea1k 9mo ago
    Tesla does something similar as their USB port for flash drives is in the glovebox. It is intended to make the dashcam drive harder to steal.
wffurr 9mo ago
>> much maligned touch settings for seat heaters I hate sitting around with a cold butt waiting on the infotainment system to boot...
- jabroni_salad 9mo ago
  to VW's credit there is a setting to automatically turn on the heated seat and steering wheel when it's cold out. In my car it is fully toasty by the time I finish scraping the ice off .
  - wffurr 9mo ago
    Chevy Bolt is supposed to have seat heaters that come on when remote started, but it doesn't seem to work on mine.

by _ea1k 9mo ago

tensor 9mo ago

Yeah, I think Tesla from a few years ago was the sweet spot. A small number of multifunction physical buttons for all the things you need while driving. I've driven a number of cars over the years with a mess of physical buttons like VW is introducing, and the result is that I've never actually used them because it's too complicated to locate the right button while driving. So usually I either just don't use the features in those cars, or end up having to stop to figure how to adjust some basic ass thing.

amluto 9mo ago

> touch screen … climate The climate controls should be physical buttons. Touchscreen climate controls tend to be giant messes requiring multiple interactions and often (hi, Tesla!) have controls in unpredictable locations. And fine-tuning the climate while driving is not exactly unusual. Of course, physical buttons can be awful too. I’ve been in a Mercedes SUV where the A/C state is controlled by some bizarre split physical buttons and 100% of front passengers surveyed are entirely unable to confidently figure out what they do even after reading the test and contemplating for a while.

dzhiurgis 9mo ago
Changing temperature takes 0.5 seconds on Tesla. Yes you take eyes off the road. For 0.5 seconds. You can buy buttons if you have disability that makes it difficult to use touchscreens.
- linkage 9mo ago
  For decades, people have been able to change the temperature in their vehicles in less time and without taking their eyes off the road. Why defend an obvious regression? Tesla fans sung the praises of other stupid ideas like the Highland's indicator buttons and the Plaid's 'yoke', both of which were silently shelved after buyer dissatisfaction.
  - dzhiurgis 9mo ago
    Yoke was a mistake for sure (and FWIW works perfectly in Cybertruck because of steer by wire), but most people liked indicator buttons. The reversal is purely because social media pressure by people who never tried it. > Why defend an obvious regression? Because it's not a regression. Whenever I use my older cars with manual controls I see no benefit. Most of the time I still have to look at it - it has a dial or little screen to know what exact temperature you are setting.
sib 9mo ago
>> The climate controls should be physical buttons. So, if I'm using physical buttons, how do I set the temperature to 24° (75° for US-folks) without looking away from the road? Or set the radio to 106.9MHz? Or the cruise control to 88km/h (55mph)? In all cases, I still need to look at an indicator.
- amluto 9mo ago
  > So, if I'm using physical buttons, how do I set the temperature to 24° (75° for US-folks) without looking away from the road? You don’t. Instead you observe it’s a bit too warm and press the down button once or twice. Source: I used to do this regularly when I owned a car with excellent buttons. > Or set the radio to 106.9MHz? By pressing preset 6 by feel. Or by glancing for 1/4 second to find preset 6 (which is a clearly labeled button that never moves) and pressing it. > Or the cruise control to 88km/h (55mph)? By driving 55mph and pressing the stalk in the appropriate direction? This stuff was all worked out very nicely in the late 1980s by UX experts who put very serious effort into making cars with an excellent user experience.

ilamont 9mo ago

> By contrast, my Nissan has driving settings like lane centering and seat heater controls on physical buttons... right next to my left knee where they are nearly inaccessible while driving. I can beat that. 2011 Prius. USB-A port is inside the center console at the bottom of the back vertical interior panel. You have to lift the center console lid, move all of the crap you've stored inside the console away from the lower rear of the compartment to reach the port, then by feel (unless you want to turn your head 100 degrees to the right and look down while driving) attempt to slot the USB cable into the receptacle.

mrWiz 9mo ago
There's a strong argument that you should never be plugging in USB devices while driving but it's hard to argue that you shouldn't adjust the lane centering settings while in motion.
jabroni_salad 9mo ago
My old honda fit had one of those inside the glovebox. I believe you were meant to plug in a flash drive or ipod and leave it forever. It did not provide enough power to actually charge a battery.
- ethagnawl 9mo ago
  Oh. That's interesting. I have a 2018 Fit and I've never been able to get the USB port in the center console to charge anything. I bought it used, so I just assumed it was broken and moved on to using an adapter in the cigarette lighter. I wonder if that's what's actually going on?
- _ea1k 9mo ago
  Tesla does something similar as their USB port for flash drives is in the glovebox. It is intended to make the dashcam drive harder to steal.

wffurr 9mo ago

>> much maligned touch settings for seat heaters I hate sitting around with a cold butt waiting on the infotainment system to boot...

jabroni_salad 9mo ago
to VW's credit there is a setting to automatically turn on the heated seat and steering wheel when it's cold out. In my car it is fully toasty by the time I finish scraping the ice off .
- wffurr 9mo ago
  Chevy Bolt is supposed to have seat heaters that come on when remote started, but it doesn't seem to work on mine.