3 ms·

Cost; touch interfaces are cheaper. Though also I would wonder if bad market research was a problem. I bet if, 10 years ago, you showed someone a traditional V

by rsynnott 10mo ago

Cost; touch interfaces are cheaper. Though also I would wonder if bad market research was a problem. I bet if, 10 years ago, you showed someone a traditional VW interface, or a touchscreen thing, they'd go "oh, cool, touchscreens". They might feel differently if they actually _used_ the thing, but if you skip that bit of the research... It's fairly common that companies make changes based on what customers _say_ they want, because customers are not necessarily good at realising what they _actually_ want until they experience it.

snovv_crash 10mo ago
No, 10 years ago everyone was complaining that their BlackBerry was faster to type on than an iPhone (or maybe that was 12 years ). I don't think touchscreens being a pain to use is a new revelation.
- rsynnott 10mo ago
  That’s nearly 20 years ago. Approximately no-one had a blackberry 10 years ago.
  - eichin 10mo ago
    To align this more precisely - 2015 was the year of the Blackberry Priv (I used one for a couple of years) and, being an Android phone, felt like kind of a last gasp for Blackberry.
    - razakel 10mo ago
      They've still got QNX.
    - Izkata 10mo ago
      The KEYone was 2017 (I had this up until 2023 or so) and the KEY2 was 2018.
AlotOfReading 10mo ago
It's not just that touch interfaces are cheaper. It's that you can decouple the interface design and feature set from the manufacturing schedule and shorten the overall development.
- peaseagee 10mo ago
  That's one of the ways in which it is cheaper, yes. The touchscreen choice was made rationally, we just disagree on our priors ;-)
- rtkwe 10mo ago
  While I get that I also think it's a bit odd because how much has actually changed about the basic required set of buttons needed to operate a vehicle in the last 20 years? Most of the differences I see are down to trim levels and companies already had the solution to that with panels that weren't on the main cluster of dash controls. My low trim Golf has a couple obvious panels near the shifter where different optional things would live; seat heaters etc.
  - maximilianthe1 10mo ago
    I guess, that only new things are: 1) driving assist things 2) drive mode select (sport, comfy, etc) 3) and HUD change (trip a, trip b, etc) 4) voice command button 5) regen braking control (EV only) 1 may be one the same button as cruese control 2, 5 may be on shifter knob panel 3 and 4 are the only new buttons on steering wheel
    - rtkwe 10mo ago
      1 is all over the place depending on what your car has; my wife's car has lane keeping and blind spot monitors and those live in a knockout panel down and left of the steering wheel. 2 I've usually found in the buttons near the shifter 3 I'm not sure what you're referring to? If it's the little screen generally between the speed and battery/rpm display those controls are usually on the steering wheel in my experience. 4 Steering wheel, in every car I've seen it in and that's often standard across the models 5 This one I've only had one experience with and that's my wife's Kia Niro EV and those are on what would be shifter paddles in a car with a gear box. The number of buttons on steering wheels between my decade old gas Golf and my wife's few year old Niro EV are shockingly similar though presented and arranged differently. Both have 4 buttons and two directional pairs (audio control for skipping on one, volume on the other, cruise control speed on another and one dimension of the hud paging on the last) though the Niro has the pairs as rocker switches that can click for one extra button I suppose.
alistairSH 10mo ago
They might feel differently if they actually _used_ the thing That has to be a big part of it... especially if the customers' reference point is modern touchscreen cell phones (high quality displays, fast, etc). But, the touch screen in my Honda is NOTHING like my iPhone. It's slow. It's not a good display. The software package is lackluster. It has a "apps" page, but there's no app store for crying out loud!!! At least the screen is only for radio stuff and a few car monitoring things. The HVAC is still manual buttons.
bregma 10mo ago
What customers say they want is a faster horse.
neogodless 10mo ago
Everyone: I never wanted a screen Also Everyone: I will never buy a car without CarPlay / Android Auto https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CarPlay https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CarPlay (March 10, 2014) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_Auto https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_Auto (March 19, 2015)
- jhallenworld 10mo ago
  They only want the screen for the stereo and backup camera, not anything else. It's easier to update a car from 2004 say to have Android Auto than to fix one made in 2024 that doesn't have it. $400 aftermarket stereo from crutchfield.. I would say that 2005 was peak car, except 2000 is slightly better because they had not yet gone nuts with serialized components. (another reason is that direct inject fuel injection hadn't taken over yet, it's a disaster)
- CGMthrowaway 10mo ago
  Screens are mandatory, because backup cameras are now mandatory.
  - gambiting 10mo ago
    Sure, but no one said the screen has to be size of an ipad glued to your dashboard. My 2022 Volkswagen e-Up has a reverse camera and it's shown on a display maybe 2 inches large. And it's perfectly usable, I actually really like how minimalistic that is. There's no "infotainment" of any kind either, it's just a simple radio/bluetooth selection screen when the camera isn't in use.
    - CGMthrowaway 10mo ago
      The size regulation is based on viewing angle. For a tiny car like e-Up you are seated very close to the screen, so it can be smaller. For larger cars, you are seated further away from the dash and the screens must be proportionally larger.
- al_borland 10mo ago
jasonwatkinspdx 10mo ago
I think that second issue is definitely a thing with kitchen appliances, where having a touch interface, or phone app, is initially seen as "oh hey this is the next generation cool thing" when consumers are buying. Then they get it home and find the app is crapware full of ads and nags, or the touch screen is impossible to use unless your fingers are as dry as the sahara or such.

snovv_crash 10mo ago

No, 10 years ago everyone was complaining that their BlackBerry was faster to type on than an iPhone (or maybe that was 12 years ). I don't think touchscreens being a pain to use is a new revelation.

rsynnott 10mo ago
That’s nearly 20 years ago. Approximately no-one had a blackberry 10 years ago.
- eichin 10mo ago
  To align this more precisely - 2015 was the year of the Blackberry Priv (I used one for a couple of years) and, being an Android phone, felt like kind of a last gasp for Blackberry.
  - razakel 10mo ago
    They've still got QNX.
  - Izkata 10mo ago
    The KEYone was 2017 (I had this up until 2023 or so) and the KEY2 was 2018.

AlotOfReading 10mo ago

It's not just that touch interfaces are cheaper. It's that you can decouple the interface design and feature set from the manufacturing schedule and shorten the overall development.

peaseagee 10mo ago
That's one of the ways in which it is cheaper, yes. The touchscreen choice was made rationally, we just disagree on our priors ;-)
rtkwe 10mo ago
While I get that I also think it's a bit odd because how much has actually changed about the basic required set of buttons needed to operate a vehicle in the last 20 years? Most of the differences I see are down to trim levels and companies already had the solution to that with panels that weren't on the main cluster of dash controls. My low trim Golf has a couple obvious panels near the shifter where different optional things would live; seat heaters etc.
- maximilianthe1 10mo ago
  I guess, that only new things are: 1) driving assist things 2) drive mode select (sport, comfy, etc) 3) and HUD change (trip a, trip b, etc) 4) voice command button 5) regen braking control (EV only) 1 may be one the same button as cruese control 2, 5 may be on shifter knob panel 3 and 4 are the only new buttons on steering wheel
  - rtkwe 10mo ago
    1 is all over the place depending on what your car has; my wife's car has lane keeping and blind spot monitors and those live in a knockout panel down and left of the steering wheel. 2 I've usually found in the buttons near the shifter 3 I'm not sure what you're referring to? If it's the little screen generally between the speed and battery/rpm display those controls are usually on the steering wheel in my experience. 4 Steering wheel, in every car I've seen it in and that's often standard across the models 5 This one I've only had one experience with and that's my wife's Kia Niro EV and those are on what would be shifter paddles in a car with a gear box. The number of buttons on steering wheels between my decade old gas Golf and my wife's few year old Niro EV are shockingly similar though presented and arranged differently. Both have 4 buttons and two directional pairs (audio control for skipping on one, volume on the other, cruise control speed on another and one dimension of the hud paging on the last) though the Niro has the pairs as rocker switches that can click for one extra button I suppose.

alistairSH 10mo ago

They might feel differently if they actually _used_ the thing That has to be a big part of it... especially if the customers' reference point is modern touchscreen cell phones (high quality displays, fast, etc). But, the touch screen in my Honda is NOTHING like my iPhone. It's slow. It's not a good display. The software package is lackluster. It has a "apps" page, but there's no app store for crying out loud!!! At least the screen is only for radio stuff and a few car monitoring things. The HVAC is still manual buttons.

bregma 10mo ago

What customers say they want is a faster horse.

neogodless 10mo ago

Everyone: I never wanted a screen Also Everyone: I will never buy a car without CarPlay / Android Auto https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CarPlay https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CarPlay (March 10, 2014) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_Auto https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_Auto (March 19, 2015)

jhallenworld 10mo ago
They only want the screen for the stereo and backup camera, not anything else. It's easier to update a car from 2004 say to have Android Auto than to fix one made in 2024 that doesn't have it. $400 aftermarket stereo from crutchfield.. I would say that 2005 was peak car, except 2000 is slightly better because they had not yet gone nuts with serialized components. (another reason is that direct inject fuel injection hadn't taken over yet, it's a disaster)
CGMthrowaway 10mo ago
Screens are mandatory, because backup cameras are now mandatory.
- gambiting 10mo ago
  Sure, but no one said the screen has to be size of an ipad glued to your dashboard. My 2022 Volkswagen e-Up has a reverse camera and it's shown on a display maybe 2 inches large. And it's perfectly usable, I actually really like how minimalistic that is. There's no "infotainment" of any kind either, it's just a simple radio/bluetooth selection screen when the camera isn't in use.
  - CGMthrowaway 10mo ago
    The size regulation is based on viewing angle. For a tiny car like e-Up you are seated very close to the screen, so it can be smaller. For larger cars, you are seated further away from the dash and the screens must be proportionally larger.
al_borland 10mo ago

jasonwatkinspdx 10mo ago

I think that second issue is definitely a thing with kitchen appliances, where having a touch interface, or phone app, is initially seen as "oh hey this is the next generation cool thing" when consumers are buying. Then they get it home and find the app is crapware full of ads and nags, or the touch screen is impossible to use unless your fingers are as dry as the sahara or such.