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What I think most US people don't realise, is this would overnight start the slow but complete collapse of the US and it's economy. Europe can make alternative

What I think most US people don't realise, is this would overnight start the slow but complete collapse of the US and it's economy. Europe can make alternatives to US tech, and with it's track record it will probably be more open with more legitimate options and less predatory monopolies. Once that is established with a home grown market of 450m people it will start competing with US in all the other markets. Let's not forgot how many EU people work for US tech.

silvestrov 10mo ago
The easy part of a smartphone to create for EU is the part that is done in the US. The difficult part is the hardware. That is also why the iPhone is produced in Asia. Replacing TSMC is much more difficult than the software.
- blell 10mo ago
  Creating good smartphone software is not easy. Only Apple has achieved it. Google is close. The rest are so far behind in the race they think they are leading.
  - lxgr 10mo ago
    Because there was arguably no need for a third option. The current duopoly only exists because it was seen as risk-free, and propping up an alternative was seen as uneconomical. > Creating good smartphone software is not easy. Yes, but it's not rocket science either (and even if it were, the EU has both rocket scientists and a space port). Maybe it's been too long for people to even imagine it, but European companies were fully capable of developing a smartphone OS and running an app certification platform (there were no app stores yet, as the industry was very fragmented) less than two decades ago.
  - VorpalWay 10mo ago
    Android is open source (decreasingly, but still). A reasonable starting point would be forking it and adding replacements for the proprietary Google Play services, app store etc. Gobally Android also has a much larger market share than Apple. (Yes the US is the opposite, it is an outlier.)
    - Cthulhu_ 9mo ago
      It can be done, but a few things are needed: money. A lot of money. And competent project managers / architects / visionaries. The money problem is the sticking point; even if you can find investors, if you don't have guarantees of sales you're boned. Actually, this is the other problem: Android is not profitable per se, you don't get an "android license fee" on your bill if you buy a new phone. It's the tie-in with Google's services (default search engine with ads, app store, etc) that make it work. And even without those, Google is a company that originally made money off of ads on webpages, they could do whatever they want outside of that because their primary source of income was so reliable.
  - data-ottawa 10mo ago
    I would argue MS did with windows phone, and Palm and Nokia did too. BlackBerry as well, but less flexibly. They weren’t commercially successful because of network effects, which I think matter less when your back is against the wall to migrate away from the duopoly.
  - BadBadJellyBean 10mo ago
    > Only Apple has achieved it. Google is close. Debatable Android is a solid basis for a homegrown solution. We just never had the need to build one just yet. What Google and Apple built was convenient. But it's not as irreplaceable as some might think.
    - fsflover 9mo ago
      > Android is a solid basis for a homegrown solution. Except all proprietary drivers tying you to an ancient Linux kernel and preventing upgrades of the OS.
      - atherton94027 9mo ago
        Are these proprietary drivers owned by American or Asian companies? There are many alternatives to Qualcomm nowadays
      - BadBadJellyBean 9mo ago
        That is not a problem of Android but of the hardware and funnily enough much of that is not produced in the US. I think we could cobble together a working phone in a short time and iterate upon that if it is necessary. Hardware has advanced sufficiently that we don't need the latest greatest to have an okay experience.
        fsflover 9mo ago
        > I think we could cobble together a working phone in a short time and iterate upon that if it is necessary. You drastically underestimate how complicated it will be. Here is one attempt: https://puri.sm/posts/breaking-ground/ https://puri.sm/posts/breaking-ground/
        BadBadJellyBean 9mo ago
        I am 6alking about creating the hardware of the need should arise. Of course it will not be comparable.
  - JCattheATM 9mo ago
    Apple was behind Google for the longest time, lacking very basic features they didn't get until years later. Don't let the blue bubbles cult fool you.
- deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]
- petcat 10mo ago
  > iPhone is produced in Asia. Replacing TSMC iPhone chips are largely produced in Arizona, and TSMC's 2nm fabs are scheduled to come online by 2028. 30% of TSMC's global production is schedule to be produced in America. USA has been strategically re-homing TSMC to the USA mainland for a long time now. Contrast with the EU which has done nothing to become self-reliant, and really just has no ideas. It is unfortunate.
  - flumpcakes 9mo ago
    Which iPhone chips? The A19 in the latest iPhones use TSMC N3P which AFAIK Arizona is not equipped to produce. It appears that TSMC are not deploying the latest nodes to US for multiple years after they've entered volume production in Taiwan.
    - petcat 9mo ago
      > Key Milestones: > First Fab: High-volume production on N4 process technology started in Q4 2024. > Second Fab: Construction was completed on the fab structure in 2025. Volume production on N3 process technology targeted for 2028. > Third Fab: In April 2025, TSMC broke ground on the site of the third fab, slated for N2 and A16 process technologies. Targeting volume production by the end of the decade. > TSMC Arizona will play a crucial role in increasing U.S. production of advanced semiconductor technology and elevate the state of Arizona as an American center of innovation. https://www.tsmc.com/static/abouttsmcaz/index.htm https://www.tsmc.com/static/abouttsmcaz/index.htm > In July 2025, Wei indicated that the company would speed up its production timelines on multiple manufacturing facilities following an additional $100 billion investment in Arizona. He stated that the completion of a "gigafab" cluster totaling six facilities would account for 30 percent of TSMC's 2-nanometer and more advanced capacity semiconductor production within the state. https://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/tech/2025/07/17/taiwan-semiconductor-manufacturing-co-accelerating-arizona-production/85245780007/ https://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/tech/2025/07/...
      - flumpcakes 9mo ago
        Exactly - so how are the majority of iPhone chips made in the Arizona fab when it can't do the newer node they are using?
PeterStuer 10mo ago
Technically, sure, but as long as the US dollar is the 'world reserve currency' any attempt to do so that would threaten to be a success can be easily 'bought out' by the US just by creating a few more bits on a ledger.
- flumpcakes 10mo ago
  USD is about 2/3 of foreign exchange reserves. Which definitely is the lion's share. However, the more the US prattles about, the lower that ratio will become, the less soft power the US has.
  - hshdhdhj4444 10mo ago
    It’s rapidly declining as the world reserve. Thats part of the over 10% decline in the value of the dollar last year (it still amazes me that those prattling on about the rise in the S&P last year dont realize that of the 16% increase, over 10% was eaten up by the USD falling, so the real increase was closer to 6% which is remarkably average if not below average, when considering higher than normal inflation). The other part that Americans aren’t seeing coming is a reduction in the reduced willingness of the rest of rhe world to finance American debt. The last few rounds have seen a much higher percentage of corporate debt purchases as opposed to sovereign purchases. Which is fine for now, but if a slowdown hits, corporate purchases of U.S. debt will reduce in a way sovereign purchases never did (in fact those tend to increase). That would severely impact the ability of the Fed to goose a slowing economy by lowering interest rates.
- sdoering 10mo ago
  Except that the US Dollar is declining as a "world reserve currency" [1]. [1]: https://www.jpmorgan.com/insights/global-research/currencies/de-dollarization https://www.jpmorgan.com/insights/global-research/currencies...
- Cthulhu_ 9mo ago
  It's only one of many; I think (armchair gut feeling etc, not an economist) that the euro was one of the best economic decisions in recent history. Unless Europe falls apart - which currently many outside forces are trying to achieve - the euro will remain one of the safest currencies to use.
kettlecorn 10mo ago
I suspect the wheels are in motion for many such transitions away from US dependency, in software and other fields. Whenever trust is massively breached, and I believe much of the EU feels strongly that the US has breached trust, the natural action is to regroup and then gradually begin figuring out how to not be vulnerable to the same risk again. If the US continues escalating the Greenland situation I expect that process will speed up massively.
dash2 10mo ago
Europe can make alternatives to US tech Then why are there approximately no European tech companies? You remember that FT graph....
- monooso 10mo ago
  The article discusses many of the (unfair) tactics which have lead to US tech dominance.
- oytis 9mo ago
  We did have alternatives to US tech, they just lost competition (fair or not) to US companies, and because tech is a winner takes it all industry, they ceased to exist. Should US companies leave EU though, we absolutely are in a position to have our own tech again.
  - flumpcakes 9mo ago
    They are either crushed my American monopolies and enforcing US laws abroad, or European companies are bought-out wholesale by American companies. Europe was too scared to enforce their own protectionist schemes because it always upset the US. Europe could be a superpower, if it wanted to.

silvestrov 10mo ago

The easy part of a smartphone to create for EU is the part that is done in the US. The difficult part is the hardware. That is also why the iPhone is produced in Asia. Replacing TSMC is much more difficult than the software.

blell 10mo ago
Creating good smartphone software is not easy. Only Apple has achieved it. Google is close. The rest are so far behind in the race they think they are leading.
- lxgr 10mo ago
  Because there was arguably no need for a third option. The current duopoly only exists because it was seen as risk-free, and propping up an alternative was seen as uneconomical. > Creating good smartphone software is not easy. Yes, but it's not rocket science either (and even if it were, the EU has both rocket scientists and a space port). Maybe it's been too long for people to even imagine it, but European companies were fully capable of developing a smartphone OS and running an app certification platform (there were no app stores yet, as the industry was very fragmented) less than two decades ago.
- VorpalWay 10mo ago
  Android is open source (decreasingly, but still). A reasonable starting point would be forking it and adding replacements for the proprietary Google Play services, app store etc. Gobally Android also has a much larger market share than Apple. (Yes the US is the opposite, it is an outlier.)
  - Cthulhu_ 9mo ago
    It can be done, but a few things are needed: money. A lot of money. And competent project managers / architects / visionaries. The money problem is the sticking point; even if you can find investors, if you don't have guarantees of sales you're boned. Actually, this is the other problem: Android is not profitable per se, you don't get an "android license fee" on your bill if you buy a new phone. It's the tie-in with Google's services (default search engine with ads, app store, etc) that make it work. And even without those, Google is a company that originally made money off of ads on webpages, they could do whatever they want outside of that because their primary source of income was so reliable.
- data-ottawa 10mo ago
  I would argue MS did with windows phone, and Palm and Nokia did too. BlackBerry as well, but less flexibly. They weren’t commercially successful because of network effects, which I think matter less when your back is against the wall to migrate away from the duopoly.
- BadBadJellyBean 10mo ago
  > Only Apple has achieved it. Google is close. Debatable Android is a solid basis for a homegrown solution. We just never had the need to build one just yet. What Google and Apple built was convenient. But it's not as irreplaceable as some might think.
  - fsflover 9mo ago
    > Android is a solid basis for a homegrown solution. Except all proprietary drivers tying you to an ancient Linux kernel and preventing upgrades of the OS.
    - atherton94027 9mo ago
      Are these proprietary drivers owned by American or Asian companies? There are many alternatives to Qualcomm nowadays
    - BadBadJellyBean 9mo ago
      That is not a problem of Android but of the hardware and funnily enough much of that is not produced in the US. I think we could cobble together a working phone in a short time and iterate upon that if it is necessary. Hardware has advanced sufficiently that we don't need the latest greatest to have an okay experience.
      - fsflover 9mo ago
        > I think we could cobble together a working phone in a short time and iterate upon that if it is necessary. You drastically underestimate how complicated it will be. Here is one attempt: https://puri.sm/posts/breaking-ground/ https://puri.sm/posts/breaking-ground/
        BadBadJellyBean 9mo ago
        I am 6alking about creating the hardware of the need should arise. Of course it will not be comparable.
- JCattheATM 9mo ago
  Apple was behind Google for the longest time, lacking very basic features they didn't get until years later. Don't let the blue bubbles cult fool you.
deleted 10mo ago
[deleted]
petcat 10mo ago
> iPhone is produced in Asia. Replacing TSMC iPhone chips are largely produced in Arizona, and TSMC's 2nm fabs are scheduled to come online by 2028. 30% of TSMC's global production is schedule to be produced in America. USA has been strategically re-homing TSMC to the USA mainland for a long time now. Contrast with the EU which has done nothing to become self-reliant, and really just has no ideas. It is unfortunate.
- flumpcakes 9mo ago
  Which iPhone chips? The A19 in the latest iPhones use TSMC N3P which AFAIK Arizona is not equipped to produce. It appears that TSMC are not deploying the latest nodes to US for multiple years after they've entered volume production in Taiwan.
  - petcat 9mo ago
    > Key Milestones: > First Fab: High-volume production on N4 process technology started in Q4 2024. > Second Fab: Construction was completed on the fab structure in 2025. Volume production on N3 process technology targeted for 2028. > Third Fab: In April 2025, TSMC broke ground on the site of the third fab, slated for N2 and A16 process technologies. Targeting volume production by the end of the decade. > TSMC Arizona will play a crucial role in increasing U.S. production of advanced semiconductor technology and elevate the state of Arizona as an American center of innovation. https://www.tsmc.com/static/abouttsmcaz/index.htm https://www.tsmc.com/static/abouttsmcaz/index.htm > In July 2025, Wei indicated that the company would speed up its production timelines on multiple manufacturing facilities following an additional $100 billion investment in Arizona. He stated that the completion of a "gigafab" cluster totaling six facilities would account for 30 percent of TSMC's 2-nanometer and more advanced capacity semiconductor production within the state. https://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/tech/2025/07/17/taiwan-semiconductor-manufacturing-co-accelerating-arizona-production/85245780007/ https://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/tech/2025/07/...
    - flumpcakes 9mo ago
      Exactly - so how are the majority of iPhone chips made in the Arizona fab when it can't do the newer node they are using?

PeterStuer 10mo ago

Technically, sure, but as long as the US dollar is the 'world reserve currency' any attempt to do so that would threaten to be a success can be easily 'bought out' by the US just by creating a few more bits on a ledger.

flumpcakes 10mo ago
USD is about 2/3 of foreign exchange reserves. Which definitely is the lion's share. However, the more the US prattles about, the lower that ratio will become, the less soft power the US has.
- hshdhdhj4444 10mo ago
  It’s rapidly declining as the world reserve. Thats part of the over 10% decline in the value of the dollar last year (it still amazes me that those prattling on about the rise in the S&P last year dont realize that of the 16% increase, over 10% was eaten up by the USD falling, so the real increase was closer to 6% which is remarkably average if not below average, when considering higher than normal inflation). The other part that Americans aren’t seeing coming is a reduction in the reduced willingness of the rest of rhe world to finance American debt. The last few rounds have seen a much higher percentage of corporate debt purchases as opposed to sovereign purchases. Which is fine for now, but if a slowdown hits, corporate purchases of U.S. debt will reduce in a way sovereign purchases never did (in fact those tend to increase). That would severely impact the ability of the Fed to goose a slowing economy by lowering interest rates.
sdoering 10mo ago
Except that the US Dollar is declining as a "world reserve currency" [1]. [1]: https://www.jpmorgan.com/insights/global-research/currencies/de-dollarization https://www.jpmorgan.com/insights/global-research/currencies...
Cthulhu_ 9mo ago
It's only one of many; I think (armchair gut feeling etc, not an economist) that the euro was one of the best economic decisions in recent history. Unless Europe falls apart - which currently many outside forces are trying to achieve - the euro will remain one of the safest currencies to use.

kettlecorn 10mo ago

I suspect the wheels are in motion for many such transitions away from US dependency, in software and other fields. Whenever trust is massively breached, and I believe much of the EU feels strongly that the US has breached trust, the natural action is to regroup and then gradually begin figuring out how to not be vulnerable to the same risk again. If the US continues escalating the Greenland situation I expect that process will speed up massively.

dash2 10mo ago

Europe can make alternatives to US tech Then why are there approximately no European tech companies? You remember that FT graph....

monooso 10mo ago
The article discusses many of the (unfair) tactics which have lead to US tech dominance.
oytis 9mo ago
We did have alternatives to US tech, they just lost competition (fair or not) to US companies, and because tech is a winner takes it all industry, they ceased to exist. Should US companies leave EU though, we absolutely are in a position to have our own tech again.
- flumpcakes 9mo ago
  They are either crushed my American monopolies and enforcing US laws abroad, or European companies are bought-out wholesale by American companies. Europe was too scared to enforce their own protectionist schemes because it always upset the US. Europe could be a superpower, if it wanted to.