4 ms·

Lego announces Smart Brick, the 'most significant evolution' in 50 years, no AI

65 points by satvikpendem 10mo ago

WantonQuantum 10mo ago
See also discussion here and non-paywalled link: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46503733 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46503733
- satvikpendem 10mo ago
  Thanks, I didn't see that, looks like the Verge is getting pay walls now.
ChrisArchitect 10mo ago
How we made the Lego SMART Play system https://www.lego.com/en-us/smart-play/article/innovation https://www.lego.com/en-us/smart-play/article/innovation
fredley 10mo ago
Lego unveils tech-filled Smart Bricks - to play experts' unease https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crmlnmnwzk2o https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crmlnmnwzk2o
cjs_ac 10mo ago
A predecessor that I had as a child: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lego_Mindstorms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lego_Mindstorms
- robertfw 10mo ago
  I still have my mindstorms controller + sensors, I wonder how much effort it would be to get everything up and running again
  - kotaKat 10mo ago
    RCX series? This is from 2020, but here’s a fairly comprehensive bit of resources on the old Mindstorms kit: https://www.johnholbrook.us/RCX_guide.html https://www.johnholbrook.us/RCX_guide.html
shevy-java 10mo ago
Unfortunately Lego kind of went backwards, evolution-wise, in the last 20 years or so. I had quite some Lego blocks in my youth and the best part was free assembly rather than those overpriced build-xyz-mega-sets one sees today now. I get it that they cater to another market, e. g. also collecters, but the creativity part really went down. And that was a deliberate decision made by Lego.
- sp4cec0wb0y 10mo ago
  That is where the money is. Grown adults in their 20s-30s with expendable income looking to collect Lego sets. It helps that Lego is a big part of people's childhood, combine that with pop culture references and you are golden. Ngl, I enjoy my fair share of Lego sets from my favorite fandoms.
- jwblackwell 10mo ago
  Yea as somebody who played extensively with Lego as a kid, almost exclusively just the "base components", I never really got the appeal of those set with all sorts of custom, single-use items
- Aurornis 10mo ago
  My kids will build a set according to the instructions and then a day or two later it's disassembled for parts so they can build something else. The reason they sell sets is because the people who buy these are parents, uncles, grandmas, and other people. The sets make it easy for them to identify something that seems like kids would love it and possibly intersects with some brand the kids like, such as the Marvel crossover sets. Once the bricks get in the kids' hands, they can do whatever they want with them.
  - r_lee 10mo ago
    this is the way, especially with Technic sets
  - hshdhdhj4444 10mo ago
    Yeah, I don’t understand this criticism. Unless they’ve changed drastically, the sets are always just the beginning of what you want to do. If it’s an object you build the object and add it to another landscape that you may have built. If it’s a castle you build the castle and then add a whole bunch of custom features to it.
bicx 10mo ago
It seems like it will be mildly fun for a few minutes, but not all that revolutionary. Does it leverage what makes Lego great and why people buy it for their kids and themselves? I don’t think so. Triggering your imagination and seeing limitless possibilities in what you can build or pretend is one of the keystones of Lego, in my opinion. Creating a brick that offers a few presets for specific types of models and play seems limiting. But who knows, I’m almost 40, and I’ve been out of the target demographic for a long long time. My favorite sets were from the Space Police era.
- jedberg 10mo ago
  It uses NFC, where the NFC tag carries a payload to tell the brick what to do. So in theory they can develop new skills for the brick and release new "trigger" blocks for it. But to your point of: "seeing limitless possibilities in what you can build or pretend is one of the keystones of Lego", the first comment I saw on the instagram post about this was "but I like to make the pew pew noised myself".
LeifCarrotson 10mo ago
Does this mean that my son's Spike Prime set (with Scratch/Python programming and motors) is now obsolete, like Mindstorms EV3, Mindstorms NXT, PowerFunctions, WeDo, Coding Express, StoryStarter, BuildToExpress, and Lego Education Spike Legacy that came before it? I'm sure we'll keep playing with the Spike - the Scratch and Python environments are great - but it's a shame to see all this continued fragmentation in the Lego ecosystem.
- hamdingers 10mo ago
  Not at all. These seem to add light and sound effects to models but there's no mention of motors, reprogrammability, or communication with Spike whatsoever. A BLE mesh network of wireless sensors would be great for Spike but it doesn't seem like that's what they're building.
- jerrysievert 10mo ago
  and all of the motor standards that keep coming and going. I have 4 different power and motor systems from lego, but still wasn't able to power my new lego Christmas train this year because the latest "Powered Up" seem to be discontinued (or at least have been "temporarily out of stock" for a year now. not to mention that if you visit lego's site in safari desktop, it defaults to the mobile version, and checkouts are broken! I'm not sure I trust lego with technology.
boh 10mo ago
So... how long until the accompanying "Lego is spying on your children" article?
lvl155 10mo ago
I still don’t understand why they got rid of Mindstorms.
- anon7000 10mo ago
  Windstorms was 100% my entry into programming through 4H. Good times
  - robertfw 10mo ago
    I was already programming when I got into mindstorms (so very happy that my high school had an "Industrial Control Technologies" class), but the jump in complexity and the thrill of seeing my code power something physical was definitely a turning point
throwup238 10mo ago
This looks awesome and I can’t imagine just how many possibilities there are if they can pull it off by integrating with other larger components and some sort of software platform running a high level language. I’d love to build a 3d LEGO Final Fantasy Tactics style strategy “board” game where lego figurines do battle with some touch screen interfaces to play out the battles with skill points. Have GMs run large games with players each bringing their LEGO sets to create a large environment. Spawn minster figurines and all that. One can dream but if these NFCs tiles are cheap enough, it’d be possible to cover each playable square with them and have smart figurines that can comunicate where they are.
leggothrow 10mo ago
I wouldn’t call this enshittification. But the number of grown ups excitedly buying Lego sets to build things that gather dust makes me wonder if there are any adults in the room left.
- downrightmike 10mo ago
  As long as they like it, this isn't a valid argument. It's their money.
panzi 10mo ago
Cool, do they have good lighting options now though? Like Lumibricks, where the wires are hidden and the floors/multiple buildings are connected with special connector bricks?
1970-01-01 10mo ago
One of the best things about Lego is that they are practically indestructible. Bricks from the 70s are still perfectly useable. I would be interested in seeing how many decades these smart bricks survive.
simonw 10mo ago
I had the "LEGO Control Center" when I was a teenager - turns out that was released in 1990! And it was amazing: http://www.technicopedia.com/8094.html http://www.technicopedia.com/8094.html You could build a 2D pen plotter with it (and a few other great models) and program in a sequence of motor movements! It was the forerunner to LEGO Mindstorms.
- hypercube33 10mo ago
  Even before this there was a similar system for the Apple //e where you could code in logo (Control Lab?) I think it was 6 or 9v and had to be tethered to work
mre 10mo ago
https://archive.ph/wcArc https://archive.ph/wcArc
port3000 10mo ago
>> the 'most significant evolution' in 50 years this is an insult to Lego Mindstorms
skybrian 10mo ago
This seems like a nice toy for kids; no programming required. But I wonder if it would be possible to make your own NFC tags to program it, or if it's proprietary?
layer8 10mo ago
They should bring back the Light & Sound bricks from the 1980s, those were great with their electric-circuit-enabled standard plates: https://bricksfanz.com/a-look-at-lego-light-sound/ https://bricksfanz.com/a-look-at-lego-light-sound/
heywoods 10mo ago
“They’re wirelessly charged, with a pad that can charge multiple bricks at a time.." Did LEGO solve this problem and Apple didn’t? The Apple AirPower is what I’m referring to and it was a matter of physics that was the mighty hurdle Apple had to contend with. But they were also trying to pump out ~15w per device. These bricks will be measured in milliwatts per brick. But I’m curious if there is any additional information about this? How many bricks can be charged at a time? Can they be placed anywhere on the pad? (I hope so.) It would be great if specs were released. I would buy the pad alone just for charging other IoT devices. https://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/incoming/tech-news-apple-s-airpower-wireless-charging-pad-delayed-due-these-reasons https://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/incoming/tech-news-apple-s-a... Edit: It will not be usable by anything other than Lego Smart Bricks. It will use a proprietary or highly customized inductive standard designed specifically for the new Lego Smart Bricks.
- eclarkso 10mo ago
  I don't know, but I wonder if the "pad" were not itself lego of some sort, so "anywhere on the pad" is vastly constrained? Totally spitballing here.
- crooked-v 10mo ago
  I would bet that the pad in question has LEGO studs on it that connect to a physical charging circuit to the bottom of the brick. They've had various motor bricks for a long time with similar connections.
  - micromacrofoot 10mo ago
    it's an induction tray like any other wireless charger https://www.theverge.com/tech/855520/i-played-with-the-lego-smart-brick https://www.theverge.com/tech/855520/i-played-with-the-lego-...
- legitster 10mo ago
  Wireless charging for electronics has been a solved problem going back to my Palm Pixi. The problem is getting to the insane wattages and charging speeds people expect from their devices these days. I'm sure these tiny, low wattage devices don't really pose a problem.
Waterluvian 10mo ago
The announcement video I saw was bizarre. It spent a bunch of time showing the very classic, simple lego blocks being used to make imaginative things kids make like dinosaurs and trains and planes. It was heartfelt and got me thinking warmly about how Lego has always been this tool for your imagination to become tangible. I spent countless hours with my brother on the basement carpet floor playing Lego. And I've been doing the same with my kids and it's been an enormous facilitator of joy for us. And then they revealed a brick that shits all over that fundamental concept. A brick that significantly narrows the imagination space by focusing on pre-defined motion behaviours that trigger pre-recorded sound effects from all your favourite intellectual properties. Does a child exist who thinks, "damn... I wish I didn't have to make all these sounds myself"?! They're trying to compete with your imagination because your imagination is a factory from which free, unmerchandizable, non-franchise creations emerge.
- bigyabai 10mo ago
  You're being dramatic. This block doesn't replace building with Lego. Nobody is going to buy the block as a replacement for making blocky dinosaurs and racecars. We know this because Lego already shipped Technic and Mindstorm products that never broke the core value proposition. Having grown up with Duplo, Lego and Mindstorm, I think this brick is awesome. I can't wait to see what Minecraft Redstone engineers build in real-life.
  - matthewfcarlson 10mo ago
    I understand the grandparents viewpoint. Why add constraints to an open ended toy? On the other hand, you could argue that the instructions and included pieces are constraints. Should Lego just sell random grab bags of pieces?
    - Waterluvian 10mo ago
      They do just sell random grab bags. I think there’s room for many options. But there was definitely an era where Lego sets had so many custom pieces that you couldn’t really do much else with the sets other than build the one design. And that's what I see happening a bit more these days. My kids, being the only grandkids, have gotten a ridiculous amount of Lego. They build and immediately abandon the highly specified sets to a shelf (ie. Disney, Star Wars, Dreamz). The Lego City, 3 in 1, and some other lines will get built by instruction maybe once (often they abandon the instructions half way through) and then pretty quickly become what we affectionately call Frankensets. I wish I had a better photo of the space ship from two weeks ago. But this is also their "mind control tower" https://ibb.co/tw11C6Lm https://ibb.co/tw11C6Lm (yeah... it got a wee bit communist by the top there) The problem with the highly specific sets and creativity is that they use a lot of these custom pieces that don't really fit well anywhere and it feels like you can't just riff on half a design and it's not worth taking Wall-E or X-Wing apart to make something else.
layer8 10mo ago
Some analysis of the technical details from the patents here: https://www.heise.de/en/background/Lego-Smart-Play-Patent-applications-and-FCC-documents-reveal-the-technology-11135038.html?seite=all https://www.heise.de/en/background/Lego-Smart-Play-Patent-ap...
micromacrofoot 10mo ago
I think it's kind of hard to understand what these are without more experience with them, but imagine lego bricks as a mesh network of smart devices... it's not just "brick plays a sound when you press it" but can almost start to be like a block programming language... if x block is near some minifig then y block makes a sound if this catches on it can have a big unlocking effect for novel creation, kind of like redstone and switches did in minecraft
hulitu 10mo ago
> Smart Brick Another Smart Brick in the wall. The problem with lego is that most of the bricks are rectangles. You can build only a "minecraft" world.
cmxch 10mo ago
What happened to just making regular bricks? Not smart ones, electric ones, but just standard bricks.

65 points by satvikpendem 10mo ago

See also discussion here and non-paywalled link: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46503733 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46503733

satvikpendem 10mo ago
Thanks, I didn't see that, looks like the Verge is getting pay walls now.

ChrisArchitect 10mo ago

How we made the Lego SMART Play system https://www.lego.com/en-us/smart-play/article/innovation https://www.lego.com/en-us/smart-play/article/innovation

fredley 10mo ago

Lego unveils tech-filled Smart Bricks - to play experts' unease https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crmlnmnwzk2o https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crmlnmnwzk2o

cjs_ac 10mo ago

A predecessor that I had as a child: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lego_Mindstorms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lego_Mindstorms

robertfw 10mo ago
I still have my mindstorms controller + sensors, I wonder how much effort it would be to get everything up and running again
- kotaKat 10mo ago
  RCX series? This is from 2020, but here’s a fairly comprehensive bit of resources on the old Mindstorms kit: https://www.johnholbrook.us/RCX_guide.html https://www.johnholbrook.us/RCX_guide.html

shevy-java 10mo ago

Unfortunately Lego kind of went backwards, evolution-wise, in the last 20 years or so. I had quite some Lego blocks in my youth and the best part was free assembly rather than those overpriced build-xyz-mega-sets one sees today now. I get it that they cater to another market, e. g. also collecters, but the creativity part really went down. And that was a deliberate decision made by Lego.

sp4cec0wb0y 10mo ago
That is where the money is. Grown adults in their 20s-30s with expendable income looking to collect Lego sets. It helps that Lego is a big part of people's childhood, combine that with pop culture references and you are golden. Ngl, I enjoy my fair share of Lego sets from my favorite fandoms.
jwblackwell 10mo ago
Yea as somebody who played extensively with Lego as a kid, almost exclusively just the "base components", I never really got the appeal of those set with all sorts of custom, single-use items
Aurornis 10mo ago
My kids will build a set according to the instructions and then a day or two later it's disassembled for parts so they can build something else. The reason they sell sets is because the people who buy these are parents, uncles, grandmas, and other people. The sets make it easy for them to identify something that seems like kids would love it and possibly intersects with some brand the kids like, such as the Marvel crossover sets. Once the bricks get in the kids' hands, they can do whatever they want with them.
- r_lee 10mo ago
  this is the way, especially with Technic sets
- hshdhdhj4444 10mo ago
  Yeah, I don’t understand this criticism. Unless they’ve changed drastically, the sets are always just the beginning of what you want to do. If it’s an object you build the object and add it to another landscape that you may have built. If it’s a castle you build the castle and then add a whole bunch of custom features to it.

bicx 10mo ago

It seems like it will be mildly fun for a few minutes, but not all that revolutionary. Does it leverage what makes Lego great and why people buy it for their kids and themselves? I don’t think so. Triggering your imagination and seeing limitless possibilities in what you can build or pretend is one of the keystones of Lego, in my opinion. Creating a brick that offers a few presets for specific types of models and play seems limiting. But who knows, I’m almost 40, and I’ve been out of the target demographic for a long long time. My favorite sets were from the Space Police era.

jedberg 10mo ago
It uses NFC, where the NFC tag carries a payload to tell the brick what to do. So in theory they can develop new skills for the brick and release new "trigger" blocks for it. But to your point of: "seeing limitless possibilities in what you can build or pretend is one of the keystones of Lego", the first comment I saw on the instagram post about this was "but I like to make the pew pew noised myself".

LeifCarrotson 10mo ago

Does this mean that my son's Spike Prime set (with Scratch/Python programming and motors) is now obsolete, like Mindstorms EV3, Mindstorms NXT, PowerFunctions, WeDo, Coding Express, StoryStarter, BuildToExpress, and Lego Education Spike Legacy that came before it? I'm sure we'll keep playing with the Spike - the Scratch and Python environments are great - but it's a shame to see all this continued fragmentation in the Lego ecosystem.

hamdingers 10mo ago
Not at all. These seem to add light and sound effects to models but there's no mention of motors, reprogrammability, or communication with Spike whatsoever. A BLE mesh network of wireless sensors would be great for Spike but it doesn't seem like that's what they're building.
jerrysievert 10mo ago
and all of the motor standards that keep coming and going. I have 4 different power and motor systems from lego, but still wasn't able to power my new lego Christmas train this year because the latest "Powered Up" seem to be discontinued (or at least have been "temporarily out of stock" for a year now. not to mention that if you visit lego's site in safari desktop, it defaults to the mobile version, and checkouts are broken! I'm not sure I trust lego with technology.

boh 10mo ago

So... how long until the accompanying "Lego is spying on your children" article?

lvl155 10mo ago

I still don’t understand why they got rid of Mindstorms.

anon7000 10mo ago
Windstorms was 100% my entry into programming through 4H. Good times
- robertfw 10mo ago
  I was already programming when I got into mindstorms (so very happy that my high school had an "Industrial Control Technologies" class), but the jump in complexity and the thrill of seeing my code power something physical was definitely a turning point

throwup238 10mo ago

This looks awesome and I can’t imagine just how many possibilities there are if they can pull it off by integrating with other larger components and some sort of software platform running a high level language. I’d love to build a 3d LEGO Final Fantasy Tactics style strategy “board” game where lego figurines do battle with some touch screen interfaces to play out the battles with skill points. Have GMs run large games with players each bringing their LEGO sets to create a large environment. Spawn minster figurines and all that. One can dream but if these NFCs tiles are cheap enough, it’d be possible to cover each playable square with them and have smart figurines that can comunicate where they are.

leggothrow 10mo ago

I wouldn’t call this enshittification. But the number of grown ups excitedly buying Lego sets to build things that gather dust makes me wonder if there are any adults in the room left.

downrightmike 10mo ago
As long as they like it, this isn't a valid argument. It's their money.

panzi 10mo ago

Cool, do they have good lighting options now though? Like Lumibricks, where the wires are hidden and the floors/multiple buildings are connected with special connector bricks?

1970-01-01 10mo ago

One of the best things about Lego is that they are practically indestructible. Bricks from the 70s are still perfectly useable. I would be interested in seeing how many decades these smart bricks survive.

simonw 10mo ago

I had the "LEGO Control Center" when I was a teenager - turns out that was released in 1990! And it was amazing: http://www.technicopedia.com/8094.html http://www.technicopedia.com/8094.html You could build a 2D pen plotter with it (and a few other great models) and program in a sequence of motor movements! It was the forerunner to LEGO Mindstorms.

hypercube33 10mo ago
Even before this there was a similar system for the Apple //e where you could code in logo (Control Lab?) I think it was 6 or 9v and had to be tethered to work

mre 10mo ago

https://archive.ph/wcArc https://archive.ph/wcArc

port3000 10mo ago

>> the 'most significant evolution' in 50 years this is an insult to Lego Mindstorms

skybrian 10mo ago

This seems like a nice toy for kids; no programming required. But I wonder if it would be possible to make your own NFC tags to program it, or if it's proprietary?

layer8 10mo ago

They should bring back the Light & Sound bricks from the 1980s, those were great with their electric-circuit-enabled standard plates: https://bricksfanz.com/a-look-at-lego-light-sound/ https://bricksfanz.com/a-look-at-lego-light-sound/

heywoods 10mo ago

“They’re wirelessly charged, with a pad that can charge multiple bricks at a time.." Did LEGO solve this problem and Apple didn’t? The Apple AirPower is what I’m referring to and it was a matter of physics that was the mighty hurdle Apple had to contend with. But they were also trying to pump out ~15w per device. These bricks will be measured in milliwatts per brick. But I’m curious if there is any additional information about this? How many bricks can be charged at a time? Can they be placed anywhere on the pad? (I hope so.) It would be great if specs were released. I would buy the pad alone just for charging other IoT devices. https://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/incoming/tech-news-apple-s-airpower-wireless-charging-pad-delayed-due-these-reasons https://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/incoming/tech-news-apple-s-a... Edit: It will not be usable by anything other than Lego Smart Bricks. It will use a proprietary or highly customized inductive standard designed specifically for the new Lego Smart Bricks.

eclarkso 10mo ago
I don't know, but I wonder if the "pad" were not itself lego of some sort, so "anywhere on the pad" is vastly constrained? Totally spitballing here.
crooked-v 10mo ago
I would bet that the pad in question has LEGO studs on it that connect to a physical charging circuit to the bottom of the brick. They've had various motor bricks for a long time with similar connections.
- micromacrofoot 10mo ago
  it's an induction tray like any other wireless charger https://www.theverge.com/tech/855520/i-played-with-the-lego-smart-brick https://www.theverge.com/tech/855520/i-played-with-the-lego-...
legitster 10mo ago
Wireless charging for electronics has been a solved problem going back to my Palm Pixi. The problem is getting to the insane wattages and charging speeds people expect from their devices these days. I'm sure these tiny, low wattage devices don't really pose a problem.

Waterluvian 10mo ago

The announcement video I saw was bizarre. It spent a bunch of time showing the very classic, simple lego blocks being used to make imaginative things kids make like dinosaurs and trains and planes. It was heartfelt and got me thinking warmly about how Lego has always been this tool for your imagination to become tangible. I spent countless hours with my brother on the basement carpet floor playing Lego. And I've been doing the same with my kids and it's been an enormous facilitator of joy for us. And then they revealed a brick that shits all over that fundamental concept. A brick that significantly narrows the imagination space by focusing on pre-defined motion behaviours that trigger pre-recorded sound effects from all your favourite intellectual properties. Does a child exist who thinks, "damn... I wish I didn't have to make all these sounds myself"?! They're trying to compete with your imagination because your imagination is a factory from which free, unmerchandizable, non-franchise creations emerge.

bigyabai 10mo ago
You're being dramatic. This block doesn't replace building with Lego. Nobody is going to buy the block as a replacement for making blocky dinosaurs and racecars. We know this because Lego already shipped Technic and Mindstorm products that never broke the core value proposition. Having grown up with Duplo, Lego and Mindstorm, I think this brick is awesome. I can't wait to see what Minecraft Redstone engineers build in real-life.
- matthewfcarlson 10mo ago
  I understand the grandparents viewpoint. Why add constraints to an open ended toy? On the other hand, you could argue that the instructions and included pieces are constraints. Should Lego just sell random grab bags of pieces?
  - Waterluvian 10mo ago
    They do just sell random grab bags. I think there’s room for many options. But there was definitely an era where Lego sets had so many custom pieces that you couldn’t really do much else with the sets other than build the one design. And that's what I see happening a bit more these days. My kids, being the only grandkids, have gotten a ridiculous amount of Lego. They build and immediately abandon the highly specified sets to a shelf (ie. Disney, Star Wars, Dreamz). The Lego City, 3 in 1, and some other lines will get built by instruction maybe once (often they abandon the instructions half way through) and then pretty quickly become what we affectionately call Frankensets. I wish I had a better photo of the space ship from two weeks ago. But this is also their "mind control tower" https://ibb.co/tw11C6Lm https://ibb.co/tw11C6Lm (yeah... it got a wee bit communist by the top there) The problem with the highly specific sets and creativity is that they use a lot of these custom pieces that don't really fit well anywhere and it feels like you can't just riff on half a design and it's not worth taking Wall-E or X-Wing apart to make something else.

layer8 10mo ago

Some analysis of the technical details from the patents here: https://www.heise.de/en/background/Lego-Smart-Play-Patent-applications-and-FCC-documents-reveal-the-technology-11135038.html?seite=all https://www.heise.de/en/background/Lego-Smart-Play-Patent-ap...

micromacrofoot 10mo ago

I think it's kind of hard to understand what these are without more experience with them, but imagine lego bricks as a mesh network of smart devices... it's not just "brick plays a sound when you press it" but can almost start to be like a block programming language... if x block is near some minifig then y block makes a sound if this catches on it can have a big unlocking effect for novel creation, kind of like redstone and switches did in minecraft

hulitu 10mo ago

> Smart Brick Another Smart Brick in the wall. The problem with lego is that most of the bricks are rectangles. You can build only a "minecraft" world.

cmxch 10mo ago

What happened to just making regular bricks? Not smart ones, electric ones, but just standard bricks.