4 ms·

Obligatory reminder that this pill is much less effective than Zepbound, not to mention reta.

by wmf 10mo ago

toomuchtodo 10mo ago
That might be okay! I'm on the lowest dose of Zepbound (tirzepatide), 2.5mg, and I'm losing 5lbs a week, which is almost too much. It will be helpful to switch to something perhaps not as good in pill form (versus my weekly injections) once I reach my target weight. For those who need pill form and the effectiveness available, it's a slam dunk imho. Orforglipron [1] (small molecule by Lilly vs a peptide) will be potentially available shortly for those needing more effectiveness. We're making incremental improvements in this system rapidly. HN Search: orforglipron - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=Orforglipron&sort=byDate&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...
- notJim 10mo ago
  Could also be great for maintenance dosing. I'm reaching the end of my ~weight loss journey~, and it's not a sure thing that the insurance company will continue paying for the injections once I'm no longer overweight. I'm definitely willing to keep taking it. If insurance won't pay for it, I could pay for the pill out of pocket if I had to, which would be cost prohibitive for the injections.
- trueismywork 10mo ago
  2.5kg per week? Wow.
  - toomuchtodo 10mo ago
    Indeed, I have to make a conscious effort to remember to eat, and consume 800 calories (two servings) of Creamy Chocolate Soylent (premade, liquid bottles) daily, along with fiber gummies to keep everything moving in my digestive track. I do strength training to preserve muscle mass. Desire to eat anything sweet or alcohol has gone to zero (RIP my craft beer desires and my sweet tooth).
    - marstall 10mo ago
      How long did those effects take to come into effect? I have been on 2.5 for a week and haven't noticed a change in my appetite, though I have lost 2 pounds.
      - toomuchtodo 10mo ago
        First week. You might need a higher dose, check with your prescriber. My partner needed to go to 5mg to see improved results, but dropped back down due to side effects (which I did not have).
    - mrguyorama 10mo ago
      You are consuming only 800 calories a day? From a starting weight of 170ish? Was this plan made with your doctor?
      - toomuchtodo 10mo ago
        My doctor does not approve or reject my actions, they simply make recommendations and provide guidance. I work with people who understand my risk appetite, which is aggressive. If you are not aggressive as a practitioner, I will work with someone who is. Unsophisticated humans need protection, which I understand and appreciate, but I need coaches and subject matter experts who will push me to my limits.
- blobbers 10mo ago
  5 lbs a week is crazy? Are you expecting asymptotic approach to healthy weight? I'm 185 and would prefer to be more like 170, but 3 weeks seems too fast.
  - toomuchtodo 10mo ago
    I started at 170lbs and my target is 135lbs (early 40s male). My blood panel looks good per my PCP, and as long as I'm not losing weight so fast I have excess skin or I experience liver, kidney, or pancreas failures of any degree, that meets my success criteria. I am trying to shed as much unhealthy visceral fat as possible while using the pharma intervention to dissuade me from unhealthy consumption habits. At $300/month cash pay through https://lilly.com https://lilly.com, I find the ROI to be exceptional.
    - SoftTalker 10mo ago
      135lbs seems very low for an adult male. How tall are you? Why is that your target?
      - toomuchtodo 10mo ago
        While I think BMI is fairly suboptimal and would defer to a DEXA scan, that weight puts me right in the middle of a healthy BMI for a human of my gender, height, and age. As mentioned, I lift weights, three days per week. This also increases my metabolism and daily caloric budget (beyond basal and resting metabolic rates). My goal is to drop fat, gain muscle, and be strong with good cardio performance, and a GLP-1 turns off the part of my brain that made me carry excess unhealthy fat and eat the foods that made that fat. GLP-1s also promote thermogenesis, so it is turning on the switch to tell your body to burn fat that you would have to fast or get into ketosis via a ketogenic diet otherwise to get into (by first depleting your glycogen reserves). I do not get any fatigue such that I would when fasting or on a keto diet needed to encourage thermogenesis and burning up fat reserves, which is awesome imho. My brain says "you are fine" instead "you must eat, feel hungry, and get hangry, even though you already have all of this fat." A bug has been patched. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=glp-1+thermogenesis https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=glp-1+thermogenesis (think like a hacker, the body is just another system to hack)
- yarrowy 10mo ago
  Even if you water fasted, you would not lose 5 lbs a week sustained. It was probably your first week and mostly water weight
  - etyhhgfff 10mo ago
    It depends on your starting weight. If you weigh north of 300lbs than this is very much possible for several month.
chrisco255 10mo ago
Its still effective though and there is no oral form of the other GLPs as of yet.
ramoz 10mo ago
Reminder that Reta has yet to actually hit the market, and social media is flooded with counterfeit resellers.
- sowbug 10mo ago
  "Counterfeit" is a tricky word when the Eli Lilly product in question isn't actually available for sale, meaning that nobody is selling anything purported to be a branded version. Nobody even knows yet what the Eli Lilly brand of retatrutide will be called. There isn't anything yet to counterfeit. You're correct that the amino acid with the sequence YA¹QGTFTSDYSIL²LDKK⁴AQA¹AFIEYLLEGGPSSGAPPPS³ is being manufactured and sold. And people are justified in being wary whether the substance they get is actually a pure version of retatrutide. But it's not counterfeit. It's an important distinction. Counterfeiters are by definition liars, and it's reasonable to assume that liars are cutting corners. But someone correctly manufacturing a specific amino acid is truthfully selling what they claim to be selling. It might turn out that retatrutide causes you to grow extra eyes in five years, and the FDA trials are on the brink of discovering as much, in which case Eli Lilly-branded retatrutide will never come into existence. For that reason it would be prudent to wait for FDA approval.
  - ramoz 10mo ago
    I would say that it seems the vast majority of the social media buyers think they're buying the drug from Eli Lilly. So maybe I'm grammatically and formally incorrect. But a lot of this feels very scammy.
    - sowbug 10mo ago
      If bros are saying they're selling something manufactured by/for Eli Lilly, then yes, that's scammy. The chatter I've encountered has been clear it's gray market from China.
Someone1234 10mo ago
Indeed; there is a MASSIVE market demand for pills since few like needles and or the storage requirements of injectable Semaglutide. HOWEVER, this pill is ineffective both in terms of medicine and cost, unfortunately. Several GLP-1 pills are in the pipeline, and there is near bottomless R&D budgets being spent on the area currently, but it isn't here yet and this isn't "it." I'd strongly suggest people ignore this release, and keep using injectable Semaglutide/Tirzepatide.
- JumpCrisscross 10mo ago
  > this pill is ineffective both in terms of medicine and cost Source?
  - Someone1234 10mo ago
    Novo Nordisk's own clinical trials (OASIS 4, OASIS 1 Vs, STEP 1). In order for oral Semaglutide to be effective you need to substantially increase the oral dosages for the same effect. Meaning you need more Semaglutide for the same action-of-effect, which increases side effects (+2.6% Nausea, +6.9% Vomiting, based on 2.4mg Vs. 25mg). As I said above, this is being worked on (inc. by Novo Nordisk), but oral Semaglutide is a very naive early attempt. They got first to market, but that doesn't mean it makes sense for people who can handle injections; you cannot compare doses 1:1 because of how weak oral is, you need to compare action-of-effect. Once you look at effectiveness, oral costs more than injection.
    - JumpCrisscross 10mo ago
      > you need more Semaglutide for the same action-of-effect Sounds not ineffective. > oral costs more than injection Are these being marketed to the same populations?
- cm2187 10mo ago
  To me, anyone who tried injections quickly gets over the needle anxiety, it's pretty easy and painless. I don't think the market is people switching from injection to pills (particularly if less effective), to me the market is in people who are too anxious to start injections but would use a pill.

Obligatory reminder that this pill is much less effective than Zepbound, not to mention reta.

by wmf 10mo ago

Obligatory reminder that this pill is much less effective than Zepbound, not to mention reta.

That might be okay! I'm on the lowest dose of Zepbound (tirzepatide), 2.5mg, and I'm losing 5lbs a week, which is almost too much. It will be helpful to switch to something perhaps not as good in pill form (versus my weekly injections) once I reach my target weight. For those who need pill form and the effectiveness available, it's a slam dunk imho. Orforglipron [1] (small molecule by Lilly vs a peptide) will be potentially available shortly for those needing more effectiveness. We're making incremental improvements in this system rapidly. HN Search: orforglipron - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=Orforglipron&sort=byDate&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

notJim 10mo ago
Could also be great for maintenance dosing. I'm reaching the end of my ~weight loss journey~, and it's not a sure thing that the insurance company will continue paying for the injections once I'm no longer overweight. I'm definitely willing to keep taking it. If insurance won't pay for it, I could pay for the pill out of pocket if I had to, which would be cost prohibitive for the injections.
trueismywork 10mo ago
2.5kg per week? Wow.
- toomuchtodo 10mo ago
  Indeed, I have to make a conscious effort to remember to eat, and consume 800 calories (two servings) of Creamy Chocolate Soylent (premade, liquid bottles) daily, along with fiber gummies to keep everything moving in my digestive track. I do strength training to preserve muscle mass. Desire to eat anything sweet or alcohol has gone to zero (RIP my craft beer desires and my sweet tooth).
  - marstall 10mo ago
    How long did those effects take to come into effect? I have been on 2.5 for a week and haven't noticed a change in my appetite, though I have lost 2 pounds.
    - toomuchtodo 10mo ago
      First week. You might need a higher dose, check with your prescriber. My partner needed to go to 5mg to see improved results, but dropped back down due to side effects (which I did not have).
  - mrguyorama 10mo ago
    You are consuming only 800 calories a day? From a starting weight of 170ish? Was this plan made with your doctor?
    - toomuchtodo 10mo ago
      My doctor does not approve or reject my actions, they simply make recommendations and provide guidance. I work with people who understand my risk appetite, which is aggressive. If you are not aggressive as a practitioner, I will work with someone who is. Unsophisticated humans need protection, which I understand and appreciate, but I need coaches and subject matter experts who will push me to my limits.
blobbers 10mo ago
5 lbs a week is crazy? Are you expecting asymptotic approach to healthy weight? I'm 185 and would prefer to be more like 170, but 3 weeks seems too fast.
- toomuchtodo 10mo ago
  I started at 170lbs and my target is 135lbs (early 40s male). My blood panel looks good per my PCP, and as long as I'm not losing weight so fast I have excess skin or I experience liver, kidney, or pancreas failures of any degree, that meets my success criteria. I am trying to shed as much unhealthy visceral fat as possible while using the pharma intervention to dissuade me from unhealthy consumption habits. At $300/month cash pay through https://lilly.com https://lilly.com, I find the ROI to be exceptional.
  - SoftTalker 10mo ago
    135lbs seems very low for an adult male. How tall are you? Why is that your target?
    - toomuchtodo 10mo ago
      While I think BMI is fairly suboptimal and would defer to a DEXA scan, that weight puts me right in the middle of a healthy BMI for a human of my gender, height, and age. As mentioned, I lift weights, three days per week. This also increases my metabolism and daily caloric budget (beyond basal and resting metabolic rates). My goal is to drop fat, gain muscle, and be strong with good cardio performance, and a GLP-1 turns off the part of my brain that made me carry excess unhealthy fat and eat the foods that made that fat. GLP-1s also promote thermogenesis, so it is turning on the switch to tell your body to burn fat that you would have to fast or get into ketosis via a ketogenic diet otherwise to get into (by first depleting your glycogen reserves). I do not get any fatigue such that I would when fasting or on a keto diet needed to encourage thermogenesis and burning up fat reserves, which is awesome imho. My brain says "you are fine" instead "you must eat, feel hungry, and get hangry, even though you already have all of this fat." A bug has been patched. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=glp-1+thermogenesis https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=glp-1+thermogenesis (think like a hacker, the body is just another system to hack)
yarrowy 10mo ago
Even if you water fasted, you would not lose 5 lbs a week sustained. It was probably your first week and mostly water weight
- etyhhgfff 10mo ago
  It depends on your starting weight. If you weigh north of 300lbs than this is very much possible for several month.

chrisco255 10mo ago

Its still effective though and there is no oral form of the other GLPs as of yet.

ramoz 10mo ago

Reminder that Reta has yet to actually hit the market, and social media is flooded with counterfeit resellers.

sowbug 10mo ago
"Counterfeit" is a tricky word when the Eli Lilly product in question isn't actually available for sale, meaning that nobody is selling anything purported to be a branded version. Nobody even knows yet what the Eli Lilly brand of retatrutide will be called. There isn't anything yet to counterfeit. You're correct that the amino acid with the sequence YA¹QGTFTSDYSIL²LDKK⁴AQA¹AFIEYLLEGGPSSGAPPPS³ is being manufactured and sold. And people are justified in being wary whether the substance they get is actually a pure version of retatrutide. But it's not counterfeit. It's an important distinction. Counterfeiters are by definition liars, and it's reasonable to assume that liars are cutting corners. But someone correctly manufacturing a specific amino acid is truthfully selling what they claim to be selling. It might turn out that retatrutide causes you to grow extra eyes in five years, and the FDA trials are on the brink of discovering as much, in which case Eli Lilly-branded retatrutide will never come into existence. For that reason it would be prudent to wait for FDA approval.
- ramoz 10mo ago
  I would say that it seems the vast majority of the social media buyers think they're buying the drug from Eli Lilly. So maybe I'm grammatically and formally incorrect. But a lot of this feels very scammy.
  - sowbug 10mo ago
    If bros are saying they're selling something manufactured by/for Eli Lilly, then yes, that's scammy. The chatter I've encountered has been clear it's gray market from China.

Someone1234 10mo ago

Indeed; there is a MASSIVE market demand for pills since few like needles and or the storage requirements of injectable Semaglutide. HOWEVER, this pill is ineffective both in terms of medicine and cost, unfortunately. Several GLP-1 pills are in the pipeline, and there is near bottomless R&D budgets being spent on the area currently, but it isn't here yet and this isn't "it." I'd strongly suggest people ignore this release, and keep using injectable Semaglutide/Tirzepatide.

JumpCrisscross 10mo ago
> this pill is ineffective both in terms of medicine and cost Source?
- Someone1234 10mo ago
  Novo Nordisk's own clinical trials (OASIS 4, OASIS 1 Vs, STEP 1). In order for oral Semaglutide to be effective you need to substantially increase the oral dosages for the same effect. Meaning you need more Semaglutide for the same action-of-effect, which increases side effects (+2.6% Nausea, +6.9% Vomiting, based on 2.4mg Vs. 25mg). As I said above, this is being worked on (inc. by Novo Nordisk), but oral Semaglutide is a very naive early attempt. They got first to market, but that doesn't mean it makes sense for people who can handle injections; you cannot compare doses 1:1 because of how weak oral is, you need to compare action-of-effect. Once you look at effectiveness, oral costs more than injection.
  - JumpCrisscross 10mo ago
    > you need more Semaglutide for the same action-of-effect Sounds not ineffective. > oral costs more than injection Are these being marketed to the same populations?
cm2187 10mo ago
To me, anyone who tried injections quickly gets over the needle anxiety, it's pretty easy and painless. I don't think the market is people switching from injection to pills (particularly if less effective), to me the market is in people who are too anxious to start injections but would use a pill.