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People are generally misguided about the side effects more like. High testosterone levels driving people to extreme violence or suicide is a complete absurdity

People are generally misguided about the side effects more like. High testosterone levels driving people to extreme violence or suicide is a complete absurdity to anyone with a modicum of experience.

mynameisvlad 10mo ago
The side effects of long term testosterone use have been studied and include depression, self-harm and suicide. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35437187/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35437187/ So, no, not really absurd at all.
- deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]
- radlad 10mo ago
  Notably, murder and homicidal thoughts are missing from this list. Here's a meta-analysis on violence and testosterone: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31785281/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31785281/
  - gowld 10mo ago
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20153798/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20153798/ > Use of AAS in combination with alcohol largely increases the risk of violence and aggression. > Based on the scores for acute and chronic adverse health effects, the prevalence of use, social harm and criminality, AAS were ranked among 19 illicit drugs as a group of drugs with a relatively low harm. It's hard to get good research data on extreme abuse of illegal drugs, for obvious reasons.
    - radlad 10mo ago
      It is typically possible to find a study for any claim, which is why I reach for meta-analyses. It's worth noting alcohol is very well-documented for its risk of increased aggression and violence - testosterone is not necessary.
- solumunus 10mo ago
  There's a correlation, but it's because violent and unhinged people are more likely to take anabolics, and certain anabolics will increase aggression, it's quite simple really. Will they turn someone from completely normal into a violent psychopath? Absolutely not, that's completely absurd. You have to be very careful with "study says this!". Alcohol has a FAR, FAR greater connection with violence, and yet most people up in arms about "roid rage" are happily sipping away apparently unaware of the irony.
  - mynameisvlad 10mo ago
    We get it, you take testosterone. Nobody here has said they turn you into a raging psychopath. Nobody even mentioned alcohol. That’s called moving the goalposts. Replying to three people in the same comment thread does not help your case. Neither is ignoring the entirety of my comment even though it directly contradicted the majority of yours.
    - solumunus 10mo ago
      I suggested that the claim that testosterone driving people to suicide or extreme violence is absurd and your attempted refutation of that was an epidemiological study showing that testosterone users are more likely to be depressed or kill themselves… I’m not ignoring it, I’m reiterating my original point which your study doesn’t even slightly refute. Maybe I’m missing something, can you elaborate on why your study shows that it is not absurd? I apologise for being passionate about the subject, it’s just frustrating to me that the mainstream view is so out of touch with reality.
NewsaHackO 10mo ago
That's ironic, as most evidence-based medicine says the completely opposite. There is a clear connection between violence and exogenous testosterone use.
- pureagave 10mo ago
  Exactly. We have the phrase "roid-rage" for a reason.
  - solumunus 10mo ago
    Particular steroids will increase aggression, most people avoid those ones. But they won't turn you from a normal person into a complete raging psychopath, if you tried them you would see how completely ridiculous that is. With most steroids you won't notice any increase in aggression. The reason studies show a CORRELATION, is because violent, aggressive, unhinged people are more likely to take steroids. It's really that simple. Do you drink alcohol? Because there is a FAR greater direct connection between alcohol and violence. Maybe sit on that for a bit. The reason we have the phrase "roid rage" is sensationalist journalism. If someone commits a crime and they happen to take steroids it's automatically labelled as "roid rage". Think about this. If you were experienced with steroids or knew many steroid users you would absolutely not hold this opinion, I guarantee it.
  - radlad 10mo ago
    Regardless of this particular situation, many figures of speech don't have an actual basis in science. I wouldn't take this as gospel.
- solumunus 10mo ago
  There is a correlation yes. Violent individuals are more likely to use anabolic steroids. The mild increase in aggression from particular compounds isn't enough to turn someone from sane to insane or psychopathic. Be careful of studies, you have to look deeper than layer 1.
datameta 10mo ago
We're not trying to characterize typical use, but rather pathological levels of supplemental hormone

People are generally misguided about the side effects more like. High testosterone levels driving people to extreme violence or suicide is a complete absurdity to anyone with a modicum of experience.

mynameisvlad 10mo ago

The side effects of long term testosterone use have been studied and include depression, self-harm and suicide. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35437187/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35437187/ So, no, not really absurd at all.

deleted 10mo ago
[deleted]
radlad 10mo ago
Notably, murder and homicidal thoughts are missing from this list. Here's a meta-analysis on violence and testosterone: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31785281/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31785281/
- gowld 10mo ago
  https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20153798/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20153798/ > Use of AAS in combination with alcohol largely increases the risk of violence and aggression. > Based on the scores for acute and chronic adverse health effects, the prevalence of use, social harm and criminality, AAS were ranked among 19 illicit drugs as a group of drugs with a relatively low harm. It's hard to get good research data on extreme abuse of illegal drugs, for obvious reasons.
  - radlad 10mo ago
    It is typically possible to find a study for any claim, which is why I reach for meta-analyses. It's worth noting alcohol is very well-documented for its risk of increased aggression and violence - testosterone is not necessary.
solumunus 10mo ago
There's a correlation, but it's because violent and unhinged people are more likely to take anabolics, and certain anabolics will increase aggression, it's quite simple really. Will they turn someone from completely normal into a violent psychopath? Absolutely not, that's completely absurd. You have to be very careful with "study says this!". Alcohol has a FAR, FAR greater connection with violence, and yet most people up in arms about "roid rage" are happily sipping away apparently unaware of the irony.
- mynameisvlad 10mo ago
  We get it, you take testosterone. Nobody here has said they turn you into a raging psychopath. Nobody even mentioned alcohol. That’s called moving the goalposts. Replying to three people in the same comment thread does not help your case. Neither is ignoring the entirety of my comment even though it directly contradicted the majority of yours.
  - solumunus 10mo ago
    I suggested that the claim that testosterone driving people to suicide or extreme violence is absurd and your attempted refutation of that was an epidemiological study showing that testosterone users are more likely to be depressed or kill themselves… I’m not ignoring it, I’m reiterating my original point which your study doesn’t even slightly refute. Maybe I’m missing something, can you elaborate on why your study shows that it is not absurd? I apologise for being passionate about the subject, it’s just frustrating to me that the mainstream view is so out of touch with reality.

NewsaHackO 10mo ago

That's ironic, as most evidence-based medicine says the completely opposite. There is a clear connection between violence and exogenous testosterone use.

pureagave 10mo ago
Exactly. We have the phrase "roid-rage" for a reason.
- solumunus 10mo ago
  Particular steroids will increase aggression, most people avoid those ones. But they won't turn you from a normal person into a complete raging psychopath, if you tried them you would see how completely ridiculous that is. With most steroids you won't notice any increase in aggression. The reason studies show a CORRELATION, is because violent, aggressive, unhinged people are more likely to take steroids. It's really that simple. Do you drink alcohol? Because there is a FAR greater direct connection between alcohol and violence. Maybe sit on that for a bit. The reason we have the phrase "roid rage" is sensationalist journalism. If someone commits a crime and they happen to take steroids it's automatically labelled as "roid rage". Think about this. If you were experienced with steroids or knew many steroid users you would absolutely not hold this opinion, I guarantee it.
- radlad 10mo ago
  Regardless of this particular situation, many figures of speech don't have an actual basis in science. I wouldn't take this as gospel.
solumunus 10mo ago
There is a correlation yes. Violent individuals are more likely to use anabolic steroids. The mild increase in aggression from particular compounds isn't enough to turn someone from sane to insane or psychopathic. Be careful of studies, you have to look deeper than layer 1.

datameta 10mo ago

We're not trying to characterize typical use, but rather pathological levels of supplemental hormone