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Why is chatGPT legal? Obviously the United States has no ability to regulate its ass into a pair of trousers atm, but why aren't European or Asian nations takin

by Kapura 10mo ago

Why is chatGPT legal? Obviously the United States has no ability to regulate its ass into a pair of trousers atm, but why aren't European or Asian nations taking a stand to start regulating a technology with such clear potential for harm?

simonw 10mo ago
If governments went around banning any technology with a "clear potential for harm" it would be bad news for laptops, cell phones, kitchen knives, automobiles, power tools, bleach and, well, you get the idea.
- ceejayoz 10mo ago
  But government does regulate each of those things.
  - gruez 10mo ago
    What type of kitchen knife regulations are there? I don't even think I saw a "knives are sharp" disclaimer.
    - ceejayoz 10mo ago
      https://www.akti.org/age-based-knife-laws/ https://www.akti.org/age-based-knife-laws/ NYC has a four inch limit on knives carried in public, even kitchen knives. https://www.nyc.gov/site/nypd/about/faq/knives-faq.page https://www.nyc.gov/site/nypd/about/faq/knives-faq.page And you can't display that knife. "New York City law prohibits carrying a knife that can be seen in public, including wearing a knife outside of your clothing." (You can take one to work. "This rule does not apply to those who carry knives for work that customarily requires the use of such knife, members of the military, or on-duty ambulance drivers and EMTs while engaged in the performance of their duties.") "Knives are sharp" disclaimers are easy to find. https://www.henckels.com/us/use-and-care.html https://www.henckels.com/us/use-and-care.html (The CPSC is likely to weigh in if you make your knife unusually unsafe, too.)
      - gruez 10mo ago
        >https://www.akti.org/age-based-knife-laws/ https://www.akti.org/age-based-knife-laws/ From chatgpt: >Minimum age. You must be at least 13 years old or the minimum age required in your country to consent to use the Services. If you are under 18 you must have your parent or legal guardian’s permission to use the Services. >NYC has a four inch limit on knives carried in public, even kitchen knives. https://www.nyc.gov/site/nypd/about/faq/knives-faq.page https://www.nyc.gov/site/nypd/about/faq/knives-faq.page >And you can't display that knife. "New York City law prohibits carrying a knife that can be seen in public, including wearing a knife outside of your clothing." Not relevant to this case (ie. self harm), because someone intent on harming themselves obviously aren't going to follow such regulations. You can substitute "knife" for "bleach" in this case. >"Knives are sharp" disclaimers are easy to find. https://www.henckels.com/us/use-and-care.html https://www.henckels.com/us/use-and-care.html That proves my point? That information is on a separate page on their website, and the point about it being sharp is buried half way in the page. For someone who just bought a knife, there's 0 chance they'll find that unless they're specifically seeking it out.
        ceejayoz 10mo ago
        Ah, you weren't actually hoping for an answer.
        JasonADrury 10mo ago
        It's an answer, but it's fair to point out that these regulations seem fairly useless. We could certainly apply similar rules to AI, but would that actually change anything?
  - lingrush4 10mo ago
    Governments don't ban any of those things. I wish I could argue the "regulate" point but you failed to provide even a single example AI regulation you want to see enforced. My guess is the regulation you want to see enacted for AI is nowhere close to being analogous with the regulation currently in place for knives.
    - ceejayoz 10mo ago
      > Governments don't ban any of those things. And the poster upthread used "regulate" for that reason, I presume. > I wish I could argue the "regulate" point but you failed to provide even a single example AI regulation you want to see enforced. It's OK to want something to be regulated without a proposal. I want dangerous chemicals regulated, but I'm happy to let chemical experts weigh in on how rather than guessing myself. I want fecal bacterial standards for water, but I couldn't possibly tell you the right level to pick. If you really need a specific proposal example, I'd like to see a moratorium on AI-powered therapy for now; I think it's a form of human medical experimentation that'd be subject to licensing, IRB approval, and serious compliance requirements in any other form.
- Kapura 10mo ago
  Well, children are banned from driving cars, for instance. I don't think anybody really has issues with this? but the current laissez faire attitude is killing people, idk, this seems bad.
- keybored 10mo ago
  Agent evangelists are are really using “you can’t ban kitchen knives” comparison on a murder-suicide coverup story? Unreal.
  - simonw 10mo ago
    Any coverup should not be legal. I'm not sure how you regulate chatbots to NOT encourage this kind of behavior, it's not like the principle labs aren't trying to prevent this - see the unpopular reigning in of GPT-4o.
    - mrguyorama 10mo ago
      They are absolutely not trying to prevent this. They made 5 more sycophantic because of user backlash. It became less useful for certain tasks because they needed to keep their stranglehold on the crazy user base who they hope to milk as whales later.
acuozzo 10mo ago
Using the same logic... why aren't automobiles illegal?

by Kapura 10mo ago

simonw 10mo ago

If governments went around banning any technology with a "clear potential for harm" it would be bad news for laptops, cell phones, kitchen knives, automobiles, power tools, bleach and, well, you get the idea.

ceejayoz 10mo ago
But government does regulate each of those things.
- gruez 10mo ago
  What type of kitchen knife regulations are there? I don't even think I saw a "knives are sharp" disclaimer.
  - ceejayoz 10mo ago
    https://www.akti.org/age-based-knife-laws/ https://www.akti.org/age-based-knife-laws/ NYC has a four inch limit on knives carried in public, even kitchen knives. https://www.nyc.gov/site/nypd/about/faq/knives-faq.page https://www.nyc.gov/site/nypd/about/faq/knives-faq.page And you can't display that knife. "New York City law prohibits carrying a knife that can be seen in public, including wearing a knife outside of your clothing." (You can take one to work. "This rule does not apply to those who carry knives for work that customarily requires the use of such knife, members of the military, or on-duty ambulance drivers and EMTs while engaged in the performance of their duties.") "Knives are sharp" disclaimers are easy to find. https://www.henckels.com/us/use-and-care.html https://www.henckels.com/us/use-and-care.html (The CPSC is likely to weigh in if you make your knife unusually unsafe, too.)
    - gruez 10mo ago
      >https://www.akti.org/age-based-knife-laws/ https://www.akti.org/age-based-knife-laws/ From chatgpt: >Minimum age. You must be at least 13 years old or the minimum age required in your country to consent to use the Services. If you are under 18 you must have your parent or legal guardian’s permission to use the Services. >NYC has a four inch limit on knives carried in public, even kitchen knives. https://www.nyc.gov/site/nypd/about/faq/knives-faq.page https://www.nyc.gov/site/nypd/about/faq/knives-faq.page >And you can't display that knife. "New York City law prohibits carrying a knife that can be seen in public, including wearing a knife outside of your clothing." Not relevant to this case (ie. self harm), because someone intent on harming themselves obviously aren't going to follow such regulations. You can substitute "knife" for "bleach" in this case. >"Knives are sharp" disclaimers are easy to find. https://www.henckels.com/us/use-and-care.html https://www.henckels.com/us/use-and-care.html That proves my point? That information is on a separate page on their website, and the point about it being sharp is buried half way in the page. For someone who just bought a knife, there's 0 chance they'll find that unless they're specifically seeking it out.
      - ceejayoz 10mo ago
        Ah, you weren't actually hoping for an answer.
        JasonADrury 10mo ago
        It's an answer, but it's fair to point out that these regulations seem fairly useless. We could certainly apply similar rules to AI, but would that actually change anything?
- lingrush4 10mo ago
  Governments don't ban any of those things. I wish I could argue the "regulate" point but you failed to provide even a single example AI regulation you want to see enforced. My guess is the regulation you want to see enacted for AI is nowhere close to being analogous with the regulation currently in place for knives.
  - ceejayoz 10mo ago
    > Governments don't ban any of those things. And the poster upthread used "regulate" for that reason, I presume. > I wish I could argue the "regulate" point but you failed to provide even a single example AI regulation you want to see enforced. It's OK to want something to be regulated without a proposal. I want dangerous chemicals regulated, but I'm happy to let chemical experts weigh in on how rather than guessing myself. I want fecal bacterial standards for water, but I couldn't possibly tell you the right level to pick. If you really need a specific proposal example, I'd like to see a moratorium on AI-powered therapy for now; I think it's a form of human medical experimentation that'd be subject to licensing, IRB approval, and serious compliance requirements in any other form.
Kapura 10mo ago
Well, children are banned from driving cars, for instance. I don't think anybody really has issues with this? but the current laissez faire attitude is killing people, idk, this seems bad.
keybored 10mo ago
Agent evangelists are are really using “you can’t ban kitchen knives” comparison on a murder-suicide coverup story? Unreal.
- simonw 10mo ago
  Any coverup should not be legal. I'm not sure how you regulate chatbots to NOT encourage this kind of behavior, it's not like the principle labs aren't trying to prevent this - see the unpopular reigning in of GPT-4o.
  - mrguyorama 10mo ago
    They are absolutely not trying to prevent this. They made 5 more sycophantic because of user backlash. It became less useful for certain tasks because they needed to keep their stranglehold on the crazy user base who they hope to milk as whales later.

acuozzo 10mo ago

Using the same logic... why aren't automobiles illegal?