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They extended their operations there because Biden lured them with insane subsidies. Don't commit the mistake of thinking Trump politics is a rupture from what

They extended their operations there because Biden lured them with insane subsidies. Don't commit the mistake of thinking Trump politics is a rupture from what came before when it comes to how the US treats Europe. It's been economic aggression after economic aggression from both parties since Obama. Different styles, same core ideas.

nonford150 9mo ago
The subsides were during Clinton and Bush 2. BMW and Mercedes were here long before Biden and Obama. It makes good sense to manufacture your product in the area it is sold - that's the real reason for their mfg base establishment. Not only the direct jobs, but also the other support ones - automation, suppliers, maintenance, facilities work, etc.
- tracker1 9mo ago
  Absolutely, especially with larger/heavier items like cars... I'm frankly somewhat surprised there aren't more assembly plants across the US just to reduce the shipping costs of the final product. Even with a more globalized supply chain of the component parts.
- StopDisinfo910 9mo ago
  I'm talking of the Biden-era IRA here. BMW had to invest 1.7 billions in 2022 to manufacture most of its EV directly from there as you can compete in the US market without the IRA subsidies and the conditions severely limit even which parts you can import. That's a significant shift moving from final assembly to forcing most of the supply chain to be relocated.
bflesch 9mo ago
Good point. "Free trade between free countries" is a nice concept but unfortunately Americans have cancelled that subscription.
- tracker1 9mo ago
  What countries, beyond the US, are you speaking to? I mean, I'm interested in what countries you're talking about that don't leverage tariffs and other restrictions to favor domestic industries in those countries.
  - Hikikomori 9mo ago
    Most countries had tariffs before trump, including USA. None have dumbass tariffs like trump though.
    - tracker1 9mo ago
      You should realize that the Trump tariffs are about opening negotiations from a position of strength and not a final position... Plenty of countries have negotiated more favorable tariff positions.
      - Hikikomori 9mo ago
        And what did you gain exactly?
        tracker1 9mo ago
        Tax revenue. The nation is tens of trillions in debt with a multi-trillion per year deficit. Tariffs are proportional to spending, and encourage domestic production and security. There have been several favorable trade deals as well as several announcements for new production facilities in the US... this may cost more than imports, but there's something to be said for domestic security in terms of access, especially in the likes of a global pandemic or war. I'm not suggesting it's a perfect solution, or situation, only in that it isn't exactly an idea completely without merit and just blindly applied at random.
        Hikikomori 9mo ago
        You're description matches a well planned and communicated slow increase of tariffs targeting specific products or industries so companies have time to adjust (newsflash, US was already doing this). Trump used blanket tariffs as a hammer to extort other countries, but its not like we want to buy your shitty cars anyway. Most of these facilities already existed or were planned. hint: most foreign brands were building their cars in US already. If the economy is doing so well because of these tariffs why are they hiding numbers? Its not even the first time US tried tariffs like these, it didn't go well then but Trump talks about like it was a golden age.
quickthrowman 9mo ago
> They extended their operations there because Biden lured them with insane subsidies. Biden, really? If you’re attempting to stop disinformation, please start with yourself. Michelin opened their US headquarters in Greenville in 1984. BMW opened their plant in South Carolina in 1994. How was (at the time) Senator Joe Biden of Delaware responsible for that in any way? Why would he care so much about South Carolina? The real reason is shipping tires and vehicles across oceans is expensive.
- StopDisinfo910 9mo ago
  I said "extended" not "opened". That's indeed intentional. Please don't use a strawman to avoid addressing the point I'm actually making. Michelin invested significantly in the site recently and BMW added a ton of EV manufacturing capacities, we are talking of a 1.7 billions dollars investment. All of this is linked to subsidies they got through the IRA on top of local South Carolina subsidies. They had to do these investments to remain competitive in the US market as the subsidies are tied to local manufacturing and the conditions significantly limit what parts they can import. It was a direct attack on European manufacturing masquerading as green investments. Guess which president passed the IRA.
  - StopDisinfo910 9mo ago
    Downvoted for a factual comment, I see the usual denial on the basis of party lines is still as strong as ever in the US. Here is a bunch of sources for the few who might be interested: [1] Eager for Credits, BMW Breaks Ground on SC Battery Plant https://www.autoweek.com/news/industry-news/a44361301/bmw-battery-plant-tax-credit-news-south-carolina/ https://www.autoweek.com/news/industry-news/a44361301/bmw-ba... [2] Inflation Reduction Act 'super aggressive,' Macron tells his US hosts (https://www.euractiv.com/news/inflation-reduction-act-super-aggressive-macron-tells-his-us-hosts/ https://www.euractiv.com/news/inflation-reduction-act-super-...) [3] Michelin's US investments won't affect Europe, CFO says https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/michelin-sales-volumes-drop-2024-europe-slows-2025-02-12/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/michel...

nonford150 9mo ago

The subsides were during Clinton and Bush 2. BMW and Mercedes were here long before Biden and Obama. It makes good sense to manufacture your product in the area it is sold - that's the real reason for their mfg base establishment. Not only the direct jobs, but also the other support ones - automation, suppliers, maintenance, facilities work, etc.

tracker1 9mo ago
Absolutely, especially with larger/heavier items like cars... I'm frankly somewhat surprised there aren't more assembly plants across the US just to reduce the shipping costs of the final product. Even with a more globalized supply chain of the component parts.
StopDisinfo910 9mo ago
I'm talking of the Biden-era IRA here. BMW had to invest 1.7 billions in 2022 to manufacture most of its EV directly from there as you can compete in the US market without the IRA subsidies and the conditions severely limit even which parts you can import. That's a significant shift moving from final assembly to forcing most of the supply chain to be relocated.

bflesch 9mo ago

Good point. "Free trade between free countries" is a nice concept but unfortunately Americans have cancelled that subscription.

tracker1 9mo ago
What countries, beyond the US, are you speaking to? I mean, I'm interested in what countries you're talking about that don't leverage tariffs and other restrictions to favor domestic industries in those countries.
- Hikikomori 9mo ago
  Most countries had tariffs before trump, including USA. None have dumbass tariffs like trump though.
  - tracker1 9mo ago
    You should realize that the Trump tariffs are about opening negotiations from a position of strength and not a final position... Plenty of countries have negotiated more favorable tariff positions.
    - Hikikomori 9mo ago
      And what did you gain exactly?
      - tracker1 9mo ago
        Tax revenue. The nation is tens of trillions in debt with a multi-trillion per year deficit. Tariffs are proportional to spending, and encourage domestic production and security. There have been several favorable trade deals as well as several announcements for new production facilities in the US... this may cost more than imports, but there's something to be said for domestic security in terms of access, especially in the likes of a global pandemic or war. I'm not suggesting it's a perfect solution, or situation, only in that it isn't exactly an idea completely without merit and just blindly applied at random.
        Hikikomori 9mo ago
        You're description matches a well planned and communicated slow increase of tariffs targeting specific products or industries so companies have time to adjust (newsflash, US was already doing this). Trump used blanket tariffs as a hammer to extort other countries, but its not like we want to buy your shitty cars anyway. Most of these facilities already existed or were planned. hint: most foreign brands were building their cars in US already. If the economy is doing so well because of these tariffs why are they hiding numbers? Its not even the first time US tried tariffs like these, it didn't go well then but Trump talks about like it was a golden age.

quickthrowman 9mo ago

> They extended their operations there because Biden lured them with insane subsidies. Biden, really? If you’re attempting to stop disinformation, please start with yourself. Michelin opened their US headquarters in Greenville in 1984. BMW opened their plant in South Carolina in 1994. How was (at the time) Senator Joe Biden of Delaware responsible for that in any way? Why would he care so much about South Carolina? The real reason is shipping tires and vehicles across oceans is expensive.

StopDisinfo910 9mo ago
I said "extended" not "opened". That's indeed intentional. Please don't use a strawman to avoid addressing the point I'm actually making. Michelin invested significantly in the site recently and BMW added a ton of EV manufacturing capacities, we are talking of a 1.7 billions dollars investment. All of this is linked to subsidies they got through the IRA on top of local South Carolina subsidies. They had to do these investments to remain competitive in the US market as the subsidies are tied to local manufacturing and the conditions significantly limit what parts they can import. It was a direct attack on European manufacturing masquerading as green investments. Guess which president passed the IRA.
- StopDisinfo910 9mo ago
  Downvoted for a factual comment, I see the usual denial on the basis of party lines is still as strong as ever in the US. Here is a bunch of sources for the few who might be interested: [1] Eager for Credits, BMW Breaks Ground on SC Battery Plant https://www.autoweek.com/news/industry-news/a44361301/bmw-battery-plant-tax-credit-news-south-carolina/ https://www.autoweek.com/news/industry-news/a44361301/bmw-ba... [2] Inflation Reduction Act 'super aggressive,' Macron tells his US hosts (https://www.euractiv.com/news/inflation-reduction-act-super-aggressive-macron-tells-his-us-hosts/ https://www.euractiv.com/news/inflation-reduction-act-super-...) [3] Michelin's US investments won't affect Europe, CFO says https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/michelin-sales-volumes-drop-2024-europe-slows-2025-02-12/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/michel...