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If you think this for one ai you must think it for all. I can now instantly visualize anything I think of. That is creative power. The same for code - I can in

by ramoz 9mo ago

If you think this for one ai you must think it for all. I can now instantly visualize anything I think of. That is creative power. The same for code - I can instantly scaffold a frontend I think of in google ai studio. Its not all great and I have to keep the slot machine spinning. But it's empowering. These "ai kills creativity" arguments are all rather uncreative.

booleandilemma 9mo ago
Except you’re not the one doing the creating. It would be like me hiring an artist to execute my vision and then calling myself artistic. Empowering, maybe, but it’s closer to the illusion of power. You control a genie, but you don’t have the power yourself. And it’s worse than that, because in reality the genie is controlled by some mega corp, and not by you at all, and suddenly you need this genie to do all your thinking for you because you’ve forgotten how.
- ramoz 9mo ago
  I don't care to call myself an artist. Nor is it about "being an artist" - subjective anyways and _could_ be defined as the ability to bring to life the things you think; of which AI is a tool.
- doright 9mo ago
  > It would be like me hiring an artist to execute my vision and then calling myself artistic. Not disagreeing with you, but you might want to sit down for this... https://www.ft.com/content/d84c8502-d413-4a26-a59c-494af11978b5 https://www.ft.com/content/d84c8502-d413-4a26-a59c-494af1197... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45416670 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45416670
  - booleandilemma 9mo ago
    Frauds have existed before AI, sure. There are people who get others to write their books for them too.
- tracker1 9mo ago
  You mean like a movie/tv/music Producer?
  - booleandilemma 9mo ago
    At least those people are aware of where they sit and who they depend on, and they're not hiding it. A movie producer doesn't pretend to have created the movie by himself, someone who uses AI to write their blog posts on the other hand... It's too tempting for people to have AI do all the creative work and then take credit for it, and it gives these people the delusion of thinking they're literally artists, authors, bloggers, etc.
deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]
Mouvelie 9mo ago
No, you are given someone else vision of anything you want. If you are being 100 % honest with yourself, the output of a prompt would never be exactly what you imagined. This is where YOUR creativity dies. Yes, you create, but you create through the filter of someone else. If this ceiling of creativity is enough for you, good. You will never break through it anyway, by design.
- ramoz 9mo ago
  idk we are sure getting close and this stuff isnt even good yet. 1 example - I nearly one-shotted all the images for my blog https://backnotprop.com/blog https://backnotprop.com/blog and i felt creatively empowered as they came out better than I imagined (but aligned in general design)
  - arbitrary_name 9mo ago
    They are disconnected, bland, and made me feel that if you rely that heavily on generic AI images, your writing can't be much better.
    - ramoz 9mo ago
      My writing is not good at all. Much like your bland resume experience. But I never really needed that - I was Accenture's youngest senior manager while you were a consultant there.
- badsectoracula 9mo ago
  > the output of a prompt would never be exactly what you imagined There is way more than just a prompt to make something interesting with AI though. For example this test[0] i saw some time ago, includes several different AI systems (Z-Image Turbo with a custom lora for the specific style, Wan 2.2 Time-To-Move for the animation output, After Effects for the control animations and some sort of upscaler. This involves way more than just a prompt and the video still has a few issues, like the right hand remaining "stuck" on the head, but the way to fix it would most likely be the same as making the motion with perhaps some additional editing work. IMO AI can make some things easier and/or faster, even allow people to do things that'd be impossible for them before (e.g. i doubt the person who posted the video could make a real live video with actors, etc like the AI video shown) but to do anything beyond simple slop you still need to put in effort and that includes making things close to your vision. (not getting the 100% exact results is fine because that was always the case with any tech - it isn't like most, if not all, PS1 devs wanted to low res graphics with wobbly polygons and lack of texture filtering, but the better games leaned in what the tech could do) [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/1pfl6os/zimage_wan_22_timetomove_makes_a_great_combo_for/ https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/1pfl6os/zi...
jmiskovic 9mo ago
Do an experiment. Take any single photograph and try to recreate any aspect of it with the AI. For example, try to match overall vibe of the color palette _exactly_ as it is on your photo. Or try to match the exact camera angle. Or exact composition. How many slot spins did it take? How many would it take to match multiple aspects of a single image? Creativity involves an extra step, imagining something in your mind eye and then bringing it to life. Not settling for whatever comes out, but demanding more. As you learn any craft your ability to articulate increases beyond happy little accidents into intentional mastery. Not so much with AI. The argument about killing creativity makes a lot of sense to me. Our brains are inherently lazy and always they seek paths of least resistance. That's the intelligence, basically, strategizing for best outcome with least effort. AI models require ~zero effort to map your prompt to a mere sliver of the entire possibility space. How can we then convince ourselves to spend weeks or years to try to reach some novel art styles, when they require so much manual labor and the attention muscle that we allowed to deteriorate away?
squidsoup 9mo ago
Painters don't imagine something and through shear technical skills translate what is in their head to a canvas. Their style emerges through constant, repetitive work and iteration. The work itself creates the art, not an idea. An idea is just fuel.
platevoltage 9mo ago
Disagree. I'm someone who thinks in pictures, which might sound like a great skill for a visual artist to have, but I can't draw for crap. I'm not even very proficient with digital art tools. Through some trial and error, I found that music was a much better creative output for me. If generative AI was around during my formative years, I might have just been satisfied creating slop art and stopped there.

by ramoz 9mo ago

booleandilemma 9mo ago

Except you’re not the one doing the creating. It would be like me hiring an artist to execute my vision and then calling myself artistic. Empowering, maybe, but it’s closer to the illusion of power. You control a genie, but you don’t have the power yourself. And it’s worse than that, because in reality the genie is controlled by some mega corp, and not by you at all, and suddenly you need this genie to do all your thinking for you because you’ve forgotten how.

ramoz 9mo ago
I don't care to call myself an artist. Nor is it about "being an artist" - subjective anyways and _could_ be defined as the ability to bring to life the things you think; of which AI is a tool.
doright 9mo ago
> It would be like me hiring an artist to execute my vision and then calling myself artistic. Not disagreeing with you, but you might want to sit down for this... https://www.ft.com/content/d84c8502-d413-4a26-a59c-494af11978b5 https://www.ft.com/content/d84c8502-d413-4a26-a59c-494af1197... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45416670 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45416670
- booleandilemma 9mo ago
  Frauds have existed before AI, sure. There are people who get others to write their books for them too.
tracker1 9mo ago
You mean like a movie/tv/music Producer?
- booleandilemma 9mo ago
  At least those people are aware of where they sit and who they depend on, and they're not hiding it. A movie producer doesn't pretend to have created the movie by himself, someone who uses AI to write their blog posts on the other hand... It's too tempting for people to have AI do all the creative work and then take credit for it, and it gives these people the delusion of thinking they're literally artists, authors, bloggers, etc.

deleted 9mo ago

[deleted]

Mouvelie 9mo ago

No, you are given someone else vision of anything you want. If you are being 100 % honest with yourself, the output of a prompt would never be exactly what you imagined. This is where YOUR creativity dies. Yes, you create, but you create through the filter of someone else. If this ceiling of creativity is enough for you, good. You will never break through it anyway, by design.

ramoz 9mo ago
idk we are sure getting close and this stuff isnt even good yet. 1 example - I nearly one-shotted all the images for my blog https://backnotprop.com/blog https://backnotprop.com/blog and i felt creatively empowered as they came out better than I imagined (but aligned in general design)
- arbitrary_name 9mo ago
  They are disconnected, bland, and made me feel that if you rely that heavily on generic AI images, your writing can't be much better.
  - ramoz 9mo ago
    My writing is not good at all. Much like your bland resume experience. But I never really needed that - I was Accenture's youngest senior manager while you were a consultant there.
badsectoracula 9mo ago
> the output of a prompt would never be exactly what you imagined There is way more than just a prompt to make something interesting with AI though. For example this test[0] i saw some time ago, includes several different AI systems (Z-Image Turbo with a custom lora for the specific style, Wan 2.2 Time-To-Move for the animation output, After Effects for the control animations and some sort of upscaler. This involves way more than just a prompt and the video still has a few issues, like the right hand remaining "stuck" on the head, but the way to fix it would most likely be the same as making the motion with perhaps some additional editing work. IMO AI can make some things easier and/or faster, even allow people to do things that'd be impossible for them before (e.g. i doubt the person who posted the video could make a real live video with actors, etc like the AI video shown) but to do anything beyond simple slop you still need to put in effort and that includes making things close to your vision. (not getting the 100% exact results is fine because that was always the case with any tech - it isn't like most, if not all, PS1 devs wanted to low res graphics with wobbly polygons and lack of texture filtering, but the better games leaned in what the tech could do) [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/1pfl6os/zimage_wan_22_timetomove_makes_a_great_combo_for/ https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/1pfl6os/zi...

jmiskovic 9mo ago

Do an experiment. Take any single photograph and try to recreate any aspect of it with the AI. For example, try to match overall vibe of the color palette _exactly_ as it is on your photo. Or try to match the exact camera angle. Or exact composition. How many slot spins did it take? How many would it take to match multiple aspects of a single image? Creativity involves an extra step, imagining something in your mind eye and then bringing it to life. Not settling for whatever comes out, but demanding more. As you learn any craft your ability to articulate increases beyond happy little accidents into intentional mastery. Not so much with AI. The argument about killing creativity makes a lot of sense to me. Our brains are inherently lazy and always they seek paths of least resistance. That's the intelligence, basically, strategizing for best outcome with least effort. AI models require ~zero effort to map your prompt to a mere sliver of the entire possibility space. How can we then convince ourselves to spend weeks or years to try to reach some novel art styles, when they require so much manual labor and the attention muscle that we allowed to deteriorate away?

squidsoup 9mo ago

Painters don't imagine something and through shear technical skills translate what is in their head to a canvas. Their style emerges through constant, repetitive work and iteration. The work itself creates the art, not an idea. An idea is just fuel.

platevoltage 9mo ago

Disagree. I'm someone who thinks in pictures, which might sound like a great skill for a visual artist to have, but I can't draw for crap. I'm not even very proficient with digital art tools. Through some trial and error, I found that music was a much better creative output for me. If generative AI was around during my formative years, I might have just been satisfied creating slop art and stopped there.