4 ms·

So European companies brought new jobs and prosperity to Greenville, SC, and the local Americans thanked Europe by voting 60% for Trump in the last election. H

by bflesch 10mo ago

So European companies brought new jobs and prosperity to Greenville, SC, and the local Americans thanked Europe by voting 60% for Trump in the last election. How do you explain that? Why do the locals vote against the countries that provide them the jobs? Are you also pro-Trump because you live in that town?

StopDisinfo910 10mo ago
They extended their operations there because Biden lured them with insane subsidies. Don't commit the mistake of thinking Trump politics is a rupture from what came before when it comes to how the US treats Europe. It's been economic aggression after economic aggression from both parties since Obama. Different styles, same core ideas.
- nonford150 10mo ago
  The subsides were during Clinton and Bush 2. BMW and Mercedes were here long before Biden and Obama. It makes good sense to manufacture your product in the area it is sold - that's the real reason for their mfg base establishment. Not only the direct jobs, but also the other support ones - automation, suppliers, maintenance, facilities work, etc.
  - tracker1 10mo ago
    Absolutely, especially with larger/heavier items like cars... I'm frankly somewhat surprised there aren't more assembly plants across the US just to reduce the shipping costs of the final product. Even with a more globalized supply chain of the component parts.
  - StopDisinfo910 10mo ago
    I'm talking of the Biden-era IRA here. BMW had to invest 1.7 billions in 2022 to manufacture most of its EV directly from there as you can compete in the US market without the IRA subsidies and the conditions severely limit even which parts you can import. That's a significant shift moving from final assembly to forcing most of the supply chain to be relocated.
- bflesch 10mo ago
  Good point. "Free trade between free countries" is a nice concept but unfortunately Americans have cancelled that subscription.
  - tracker1 10mo ago
    What countries, beyond the US, are you speaking to? I mean, I'm interested in what countries you're talking about that don't leverage tariffs and other restrictions to favor domestic industries in those countries.
    - Hikikomori 10mo ago
      Most countries had tariffs before trump, including USA. None have dumbass tariffs like trump though.
      - tracker1 10mo ago
        You should realize that the Trump tariffs are about opening negotiations from a position of strength and not a final position... Plenty of countries have negotiated more favorable tariff positions.
        Hikikomori 10mo ago
        And what did you gain exactly?
        tracker1 10mo ago
        Tax revenue. The nation is tens of trillions in debt with a multi-trillion per year deficit. Tariffs are proportional to spending, and encourage domestic production and security. There have been several favorable trade deals as well as several announcements for new production facilities in the US... this may cost more than imports, but there's something to be said for domestic security in terms of access, especially in the likes of a global pandemic or war. I'm not suggesting it's a perfect solution, or situation, only in that it isn't exactly an idea completely without merit and just blindly applied at random.
- quickthrowman 10mo ago
  > They extended their operations there because Biden lured them with insane subsidies. Biden, really? If you’re attempting to stop disinformation, please start with yourself. Michelin opened their US headquarters in Greenville in 1984. BMW opened their plant in South Carolina in 1994. How was (at the time) Senator Joe Biden of Delaware responsible for that in any way? Why would he care so much about South Carolina? The real reason is shipping tires and vehicles across oceans is expensive.
  - StopDisinfo910 10mo ago
    I said "extended" not "opened". That's indeed intentional. Please don't use a strawman to avoid addressing the point I'm actually making. Michelin invested significantly in the site recently and BMW added a ton of EV manufacturing capacities, we are talking of a 1.7 billions dollars investment. All of this is linked to subsidies they got through the IRA on top of local South Carolina subsidies. They had to do these investments to remain competitive in the US market as the subsidies are tied to local manufacturing and the conditions significantly limit what parts they can import. It was a direct attack on European manufacturing masquerading as green investments. Guess which president passed the IRA.
    - StopDisinfo910 10mo ago
      Downvoted for a factual comment, I see the usual denial on the basis of party lines is still as strong as ever in the US. Here is a bunch of sources for the few who might be interested: [1] Eager for Credits, BMW Breaks Ground on SC Battery Plant https://www.autoweek.com/news/industry-news/a44361301/bmw-battery-plant-tax-credit-news-south-carolina/ https://www.autoweek.com/news/industry-news/a44361301/bmw-ba... [2] Inflation Reduction Act 'super aggressive,' Macron tells his US hosts (https://www.euractiv.com/news/inflation-reduction-act-super-aggressive-macron-tells-his-us-hosts/ https://www.euractiv.com/news/inflation-reduction-act-super-...) [3] Michelin's US investments won't affect Europe, CFO says https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/michelin-sales-volumes-drop-2024-europe-slows-2025-02-12/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/michel...
cpursley 10mo ago
HN sure does like beating up on folks in the Southern US by painting us all with the same brush, it's the worst kind of ugly.
- MSFT_Edging 10mo ago
  It's not called the Southern Strategy for shits and giggles.
- tasty_freeze 10mo ago
  I'm a liberal and I've lived in Texas (Austin) for 20 years. It is infuriating when I am on some liberal-oriented forum, someone says we should force Texas out of the union or whatever, and everyone cheers. ~40% of Texans didn't vote for Trump, and in absolute numbers are a greater number of liberals than most other states in their entirety ... yet my supposed fellows want to write us off. Ugly indeed.
  - mullingitover 10mo ago
    Are you...doing to liberal-oriented forums what they do to Texas? Tarring everyone with the same brush?
    - bflesch 10mo ago
      Would you even call HN a liberal forum? It is full to the brim with profiteers who have no ethical framework except making money for US-based VCs. The past years have shown that many have no problem to change affiliation with the zeitgeist. I feel many Americans are secretly pro-Trump as long as they make money. If there would be more liberals in US tech we would see much more leaks coming from companies such as Apple, Facebook, Reddit, Google, about how the senior leadership is supporting the government policies. For example with Facebook it needed a woman to get sexually harrassed out of her job and write a book called "careless people" so that it is reported that Facebook engineers were actively embedded with the Trump campaign while at the same time democrat voters (black people) were shown literal fake news ads to keep them away from voting. I have not seen one Facebook senior engineer being ostracized on HN for working on the trump campaign. Everbody made their millions and joined the next big thing, with us worshipping their amazing FAANG credentials. If the people who worked on DOGE do a "SHOW HN:" nobody would call it out.
hollerith 10mo ago
Because when an American votes for a president, asking how his choice will affect Europeans is not his top priority.

by bflesch 10mo ago

StopDisinfo910 10mo ago

They extended their operations there because Biden lured them with insane subsidies. Don't commit the mistake of thinking Trump politics is a rupture from what came before when it comes to how the US treats Europe. It's been economic aggression after economic aggression from both parties since Obama. Different styles, same core ideas.

nonford150 10mo ago
The subsides were during Clinton and Bush 2. BMW and Mercedes were here long before Biden and Obama. It makes good sense to manufacture your product in the area it is sold - that's the real reason for their mfg base establishment. Not only the direct jobs, but also the other support ones - automation, suppliers, maintenance, facilities work, etc.
- tracker1 10mo ago
  Absolutely, especially with larger/heavier items like cars... I'm frankly somewhat surprised there aren't more assembly plants across the US just to reduce the shipping costs of the final product. Even with a more globalized supply chain of the component parts.
- StopDisinfo910 10mo ago
  I'm talking of the Biden-era IRA here. BMW had to invest 1.7 billions in 2022 to manufacture most of its EV directly from there as you can compete in the US market without the IRA subsidies and the conditions severely limit even which parts you can import. That's a significant shift moving from final assembly to forcing most of the supply chain to be relocated.
bflesch 10mo ago
Good point. "Free trade between free countries" is a nice concept but unfortunately Americans have cancelled that subscription.
- tracker1 10mo ago
  What countries, beyond the US, are you speaking to? I mean, I'm interested in what countries you're talking about that don't leverage tariffs and other restrictions to favor domestic industries in those countries.
  - Hikikomori 10mo ago
    Most countries had tariffs before trump, including USA. None have dumbass tariffs like trump though.
    - tracker1 10mo ago
      You should realize that the Trump tariffs are about opening negotiations from a position of strength and not a final position... Plenty of countries have negotiated more favorable tariff positions.
      - Hikikomori 10mo ago
        And what did you gain exactly?
        tracker1 10mo ago
        Tax revenue. The nation is tens of trillions in debt with a multi-trillion per year deficit. Tariffs are proportional to spending, and encourage domestic production and security. There have been several favorable trade deals as well as several announcements for new production facilities in the US... this may cost more than imports, but there's something to be said for domestic security in terms of access, especially in the likes of a global pandemic or war. I'm not suggesting it's a perfect solution, or situation, only in that it isn't exactly an idea completely without merit and just blindly applied at random.
quickthrowman 10mo ago
> They extended their operations there because Biden lured them with insane subsidies. Biden, really? If you’re attempting to stop disinformation, please start with yourself. Michelin opened their US headquarters in Greenville in 1984. BMW opened their plant in South Carolina in 1994. How was (at the time) Senator Joe Biden of Delaware responsible for that in any way? Why would he care so much about South Carolina? The real reason is shipping tires and vehicles across oceans is expensive.
- StopDisinfo910 10mo ago
  I said "extended" not "opened". That's indeed intentional. Please don't use a strawman to avoid addressing the point I'm actually making. Michelin invested significantly in the site recently and BMW added a ton of EV manufacturing capacities, we are talking of a 1.7 billions dollars investment. All of this is linked to subsidies they got through the IRA on top of local South Carolina subsidies. They had to do these investments to remain competitive in the US market as the subsidies are tied to local manufacturing and the conditions significantly limit what parts they can import. It was a direct attack on European manufacturing masquerading as green investments. Guess which president passed the IRA.
  - StopDisinfo910 10mo ago
    Downvoted for a factual comment, I see the usual denial on the basis of party lines is still as strong as ever in the US. Here is a bunch of sources for the few who might be interested: [1] Eager for Credits, BMW Breaks Ground on SC Battery Plant https://www.autoweek.com/news/industry-news/a44361301/bmw-battery-plant-tax-credit-news-south-carolina/ https://www.autoweek.com/news/industry-news/a44361301/bmw-ba... [2] Inflation Reduction Act 'super aggressive,' Macron tells his US hosts (https://www.euractiv.com/news/inflation-reduction-act-super-aggressive-macron-tells-his-us-hosts/ https://www.euractiv.com/news/inflation-reduction-act-super-...) [3] Michelin's US investments won't affect Europe, CFO says https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/michelin-sales-volumes-drop-2024-europe-slows-2025-02-12/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/michel...

cpursley 10mo ago

HN sure does like beating up on folks in the Southern US by painting us all with the same brush, it's the worst kind of ugly.

MSFT_Edging 10mo ago
It's not called the Southern Strategy for shits and giggles.
tasty_freeze 10mo ago
I'm a liberal and I've lived in Texas (Austin) for 20 years. It is infuriating when I am on some liberal-oriented forum, someone says we should force Texas out of the union or whatever, and everyone cheers. ~40% of Texans didn't vote for Trump, and in absolute numbers are a greater number of liberals than most other states in their entirety ... yet my supposed fellows want to write us off. Ugly indeed.
- mullingitover 10mo ago
  Are you...doing to liberal-oriented forums what they do to Texas? Tarring everyone with the same brush?
  - bflesch 10mo ago
    Would you even call HN a liberal forum? It is full to the brim with profiteers who have no ethical framework except making money for US-based VCs. The past years have shown that many have no problem to change affiliation with the zeitgeist. I feel many Americans are secretly pro-Trump as long as they make money. If there would be more liberals in US tech we would see much more leaks coming from companies such as Apple, Facebook, Reddit, Google, about how the senior leadership is supporting the government policies. For example with Facebook it needed a woman to get sexually harrassed out of her job and write a book called "careless people" so that it is reported that Facebook engineers were actively embedded with the Trump campaign while at the same time democrat voters (black people) were shown literal fake news ads to keep them away from voting. I have not seen one Facebook senior engineer being ostracized on HN for working on the trump campaign. Everbody made their millions and joined the next big thing, with us worshipping their amazing FAANG credentials. If the people who worked on DOGE do a "SHOW HN:" nobody would call it out.

hollerith 10mo ago

Because when an American votes for a president, asking how his choice will affect Europeans is not his top priority.