3 ms·

I'm not sure megayachts have no economic downside. They create some jobs, certainly, but if the golden goose is catering to the whims of eccentric billionaires,

I'm not sure megayachts have no economic downside. They create some jobs, certainly, but if the golden goose is catering to the whims of eccentric billionaires, then collectively we're losing smart and talented people who could be building things like better public transportation, or more reliable and sustainable infrastructure.

xhkkffbf 9mo ago
I don't think the lack of talent is preventing us from having good public transportation. Diverting smart folks from yacht building will not eliminate the problems with unions, zoning, or crime to name a few of the issues. These are difficult problems because people and their different desires are involved.
- netrus 9mo ago
  One city has a millionaire who builds a yacht for 100M dollars in a local shipyard and uses it for holidays. The neighbor city has a millionaire who spends 100M dollars to build 10 ferries he gifts to the city. The general population is clearly better off in the second case, even if it does not matter for the workers in the shipyard.
  - gertlex 9mo ago
    That seems very lucky of the second city. Let's hope we get lucky with some generous billionaires soon! I don't claim that regulations are simple, and incentives couldn't be created to result in infrastructure investment by the wealthy... but I won't hold my breath.
  - xhkkffbf 9mo ago
    Cute gambit to talk about ferries, the one mode of transport that doesn't have insane land-use debates. (Although they do need waterfront property on both ends.) I'll give you a point for that one. But let's be serious. Ferries have a very limited use in only a few cities. Even then, the appeal is limited because they're relatively slow. I submit that the most common result of replacing one yacht with $100m of public transit spending is that the unions and the bureaucracy will eat up the $100m in a few minutes. The theory here is that diverting more smart people into "good" careers like urban planning will be great. But if we look at the last 100 years in the United States, the rise of careers like urban planning have been correlated with an explosion in construction costs. Yet back in the bad old days when there weren't urban planning degrees and only a few effete twits went to college, private capitalism was able to build two big urban transit systems in NYC. No book smart people. Just sandhogs and profit motive. How much did it cost to add just a few stops to the NYC subway over the last two decades?
    - threetonesun 9mo ago
      Yes, when you don't care about the environment or safety regulations or displacing people poorer than you, infrastructure is a very easy problem to solve. Fortunately for you, we seem to be heading back towards that way of thinking. Also, I live near a city that had one of those ridiculous, way over budget projects where sure, some money was funneled to unions and bureaucracy or whatever evil monsters you've concocted here. No amount of billionaire pet projects could match the amount of good it did across the number of people it affected. Sometimes the inefficiencies of human cooperation are greased with money, and that's perfectly fine.
      - laterium 9mo ago
        Is 75% of the country zoned SFH because of safety regulations or environmental reasons?
vablings 9mo ago
I disagree with this. Some of the more extravagant engineering prowess has divested from insane eccentric billionaires Like the other commenter said the larger issue is the monopolization (see groq x nvidia for a glaring example) and other forms of rent seeking that clamp down on market fairness and efficiency
- mike50 9mo ago
  Mega yachts are not airplanes, computers, software or some other cutting edge or basic research technology. It's a boat that other then adding starlink hasn't meaningfully changed for decades.
  - vablings 9mo ago
    Mega yachts are designed using CAD software, the prototypes are milled or even sometimes now 3d printed out of huge foam panel. Advanced hulls are constructed from a number of materials and methods. All of these things required bespoke skilled labor that cannot be replaced with robots or AI. I think mega yachts are stupid, that doesn't mean they shouldn't exist and to act like they are the same as even 20 years ago is willfully ignorant
- hakfoo 9mo ago
  It feels like the quality of our eccentric billionaires has gone downhill. We've all seen the comic where the villian tells Spider-Man "I don't want to cure cancer, I want to turn people into dinosaurs." I would respect that a hell of a lot more than whatever Bezos/Musk/Zuckerberg/etc are doing with their money. Hell, I'd settle for Howard Hughes levels of madness-mixed-with-genius. Everyone just buys the same Billionaire Starter Pack these days consisting of ugly yachts and mansions, and the obligatory rocket company. The change is just spent on aggressive hoard-management and political machinations. Is their heart even in any of those ventures? When they wake up, so they say "I spent the first 40 years of my life selling my soul so I can do this, and it was so worth it?" I know if you dropped twelve figures in my lap, I'd be saying things like "who can I hire to help me engineer an army of superintelligent dragon creatures" or "let's level Peoria, Arizona and rebuild it as a car-free zone with the density of midtown Mahnattan", not "let's buy Yahoo, because all the other depressing media outlets are spoken for already."
colechristensen 9mo ago
You're imagining a nonexistent problem. Luxury yachts and public transit make approximately 0 talent impact on the world. Building each is an extremely tiny industry. These are also very average talent required jobs.
numpad0 9mo ago
And I would wonder if overpriced luxury items in general are detrimental to the economy. It feels to simple me that transacting items with subjective added values above costs shrinks economy a bit. To me it feels that overpriced items cause less trickle downs if they cost less to make: the delta would go into an oblivion. Trickle downs don't appear to be real, but less than already immeasurable sounds bad.

xhkkffbf 9mo ago

I don't think the lack of talent is preventing us from having good public transportation. Diverting smart folks from yacht building will not eliminate the problems with unions, zoning, or crime to name a few of the issues. These are difficult problems because people and their different desires are involved.

netrus 9mo ago
One city has a millionaire who builds a yacht for 100M dollars in a local shipyard and uses it for holidays. The neighbor city has a millionaire who spends 100M dollars to build 10 ferries he gifts to the city. The general population is clearly better off in the second case, even if it does not matter for the workers in the shipyard.
- gertlex 9mo ago
  That seems very lucky of the second city. Let's hope we get lucky with some generous billionaires soon! I don't claim that regulations are simple, and incentives couldn't be created to result in infrastructure investment by the wealthy... but I won't hold my breath.
- xhkkffbf 9mo ago
  Cute gambit to talk about ferries, the one mode of transport that doesn't have insane land-use debates. (Although they do need waterfront property on both ends.) I'll give you a point for that one. But let's be serious. Ferries have a very limited use in only a few cities. Even then, the appeal is limited because they're relatively slow. I submit that the most common result of replacing one yacht with $100m of public transit spending is that the unions and the bureaucracy will eat up the $100m in a few minutes. The theory here is that diverting more smart people into "good" careers like urban planning will be great. But if we look at the last 100 years in the United States, the rise of careers like urban planning have been correlated with an explosion in construction costs. Yet back in the bad old days when there weren't urban planning degrees and only a few effete twits went to college, private capitalism was able to build two big urban transit systems in NYC. No book smart people. Just sandhogs and profit motive. How much did it cost to add just a few stops to the NYC subway over the last two decades?
  - threetonesun 9mo ago
    Yes, when you don't care about the environment or safety regulations or displacing people poorer than you, infrastructure is a very easy problem to solve. Fortunately for you, we seem to be heading back towards that way of thinking. Also, I live near a city that had one of those ridiculous, way over budget projects where sure, some money was funneled to unions and bureaucracy or whatever evil monsters you've concocted here. No amount of billionaire pet projects could match the amount of good it did across the number of people it affected. Sometimes the inefficiencies of human cooperation are greased with money, and that's perfectly fine.
    - laterium 9mo ago
      Is 75% of the country zoned SFH because of safety regulations or environmental reasons?

vablings 9mo ago

I disagree with this. Some of the more extravagant engineering prowess has divested from insane eccentric billionaires Like the other commenter said the larger issue is the monopolization (see groq x nvidia for a glaring example) and other forms of rent seeking that clamp down on market fairness and efficiency

mike50 9mo ago
Mega yachts are not airplanes, computers, software or some other cutting edge or basic research technology. It's a boat that other then adding starlink hasn't meaningfully changed for decades.
- vablings 9mo ago
  Mega yachts are designed using CAD software, the prototypes are milled or even sometimes now 3d printed out of huge foam panel. Advanced hulls are constructed from a number of materials and methods. All of these things required bespoke skilled labor that cannot be replaced with robots or AI. I think mega yachts are stupid, that doesn't mean they shouldn't exist and to act like they are the same as even 20 years ago is willfully ignorant
hakfoo 9mo ago
It feels like the quality of our eccentric billionaires has gone downhill. We've all seen the comic where the villian tells Spider-Man "I don't want to cure cancer, I want to turn people into dinosaurs." I would respect that a hell of a lot more than whatever Bezos/Musk/Zuckerberg/etc are doing with their money. Hell, I'd settle for Howard Hughes levels of madness-mixed-with-genius. Everyone just buys the same Billionaire Starter Pack these days consisting of ugly yachts and mansions, and the obligatory rocket company. The change is just spent on aggressive hoard-management and political machinations. Is their heart even in any of those ventures? When they wake up, so they say "I spent the first 40 years of my life selling my soul so I can do this, and it was so worth it?" I know if you dropped twelve figures in my lap, I'd be saying things like "who can I hire to help me engineer an army of superintelligent dragon creatures" or "let's level Peoria, Arizona and rebuild it as a car-free zone with the density of midtown Mahnattan", not "let's buy Yahoo, because all the other depressing media outlets are spoken for already."

colechristensen 9mo ago

You're imagining a nonexistent problem. Luxury yachts and public transit make approximately 0 talent impact on the world. Building each is an extremely tiny industry. These are also very average talent required jobs.

numpad0 9mo ago

And I would wonder if overpriced luxury items in general are detrimental to the economy. It feels to simple me that transacting items with subjective added values above costs shrinks economy a bit. To me it feels that overpriced items cause less trickle downs if they cost less to make: the delta would go into an oblivion. Trickle downs don't appear to be real, but less than already immeasurable sounds bad.