5 ms·

The only "real" justification is that this is a long term play to figure out a UI and interaction shift that will work for general augmented reality devices (ak

The only "real" justification is that this is a long term play to figure out a UI and interaction shift that will work for general augmented reality devices (aka whatever device Apple releases five years and two iterations from now based on the Vision Pro.)

sneak 9mo ago
That isn’t a justification for fucking up the icons or using single retina pixels to differentiate them. It’s just stupid people doing stupid things.
afavour 9mo ago
That’s the same logic that led to the Windows 8 UI being designed tablet first because that’s “where we’re all going”. Fast forward to Windows 10 where MS had to concede that, no, turns out it isn’t where we’re all going and rolled most of it back.
- ghaff 9mo ago
  It's somewhat understandable. A lot of us felt at the time that surely laptops and tablets would converge. Otherwise, what a waste of hardware. But it hasn't really happened. From a hardware perspective, things have gotten closer with the iPad's magnetic keyboard. But, I still find that the iPad as laptop replacement to be a compromise that I may tolerate for travel but don't love for a lot of laptop work.
  - emchammer 9mo ago
    Magnetic keyboard on the iPad is such a lose. Some Thai hacker got full macOS running on his iPhone over Christmas. Apple are cowards collecting dividends.
    - ghaff 9mo ago
      The magnetic keyboard lets you use the iPad without it having to be resting on a solid surface like basically every tablet/keyboard combination out there. Microsoft has tried various hybrid laptop/tablet arrangements that did both things mediocrely. I have zero interest in what someone has hacked together.
  - carlosjobim 9mo ago
    iPads are great devices for non-tech savvy people who need a computer for stuff like writing and reading documents and e-mails, planning travel and making reservations, keeping in touch with people on messaging and social media. That's a gigantic market segment, and Apple has to be very careful to not make those devices complicated or vulnerable.
    - ghaff 9mo ago
      Exactly. I tend not to use my iPad that much except when traveling--partly because I have an old MacBook that lives on my dining room table. If I didn't have that I would certainly use my iPad more (and would doubtless get more comfortable using it for more purposes).
      - technothrasher 9mo ago
        I struggle to find any use case at all for my iPad. Even when traveling, I use my phone most of the time and when I want something bigger, I have the MacBook Air in my bag, which doesn't feel any more cumbersome to have with me than an iPad.
        ghaff 9mo ago
        I won't really argue much. I can get by with just my iPhone. I think a MacBook (don't have an Air) is better for a lot of things even if the iPad is better for media on a plane. The weight difference is minimal if you count the keyboard. I don't draw so don't need an iPad for that. A Kindle weighs nothing so I can always bring that for reading. Not sure I'll buy another iPad given my current lifestyle.
    - Yizahi 9mo ago
      As a tech support for a person with iOS gadgets, this is exactly some tasks which are way too hard on iPad. Emails getting lost because default Mail app was flaky, so I need to install Gmail app. Travel involves tickets, aka files. Now I need to help find the files in the locked down hell of a UI and figure out how to send them to a different app. Bonus points if they were archived and need unpacking. Messaging - some accounts tied to an old number, and a new number is needed to, well, make calls, and Apple generously doesn't provide dualsim option outside of China, so now I need to figure out sync between two devices with two sims, and then some messengers don't allow that while others do, and then I need to explain all that to an elderly non-IT person... In short - it's a mess, every time any task outside of doomscrolling an watching YT arises on iOS.
lonelyasacloud 9mo ago
That will be part of it. The main driver though that they've been working on for years is trying to figure out how to add just enough desktop to UIKit to allow them to kill off AppKit as a separate thing.

sneak 9mo ago

That isn’t a justification for fucking up the icons or using single retina pixels to differentiate them. It’s just stupid people doing stupid things.

afavour 9mo ago

That’s the same logic that led to the Windows 8 UI being designed tablet first because that’s “where we’re all going”. Fast forward to Windows 10 where MS had to concede that, no, turns out it isn’t where we’re all going and rolled most of it back.

ghaff 9mo ago
It's somewhat understandable. A lot of us felt at the time that surely laptops and tablets would converge. Otherwise, what a waste of hardware. But it hasn't really happened. From a hardware perspective, things have gotten closer with the iPad's magnetic keyboard. But, I still find that the iPad as laptop replacement to be a compromise that I may tolerate for travel but don't love for a lot of laptop work.
- emchammer 9mo ago
  Magnetic keyboard on the iPad is such a lose. Some Thai hacker got full macOS running on his iPhone over Christmas. Apple are cowards collecting dividends.
  - ghaff 9mo ago
    The magnetic keyboard lets you use the iPad without it having to be resting on a solid surface like basically every tablet/keyboard combination out there. Microsoft has tried various hybrid laptop/tablet arrangements that did both things mediocrely. I have zero interest in what someone has hacked together.
- carlosjobim 9mo ago
  iPads are great devices for non-tech savvy people who need a computer for stuff like writing and reading documents and e-mails, planning travel and making reservations, keeping in touch with people on messaging and social media. That's a gigantic market segment, and Apple has to be very careful to not make those devices complicated or vulnerable.
  - ghaff 9mo ago
    Exactly. I tend not to use my iPad that much except when traveling--partly because I have an old MacBook that lives on my dining room table. If I didn't have that I would certainly use my iPad more (and would doubtless get more comfortable using it for more purposes).
    - technothrasher 9mo ago
      I struggle to find any use case at all for my iPad. Even when traveling, I use my phone most of the time and when I want something bigger, I have the MacBook Air in my bag, which doesn't feel any more cumbersome to have with me than an iPad.
      - ghaff 9mo ago
        I won't really argue much. I can get by with just my iPhone. I think a MacBook (don't have an Air) is better for a lot of things even if the iPad is better for media on a plane. The weight difference is minimal if you count the keyboard. I don't draw so don't need an iPad for that. A Kindle weighs nothing so I can always bring that for reading. Not sure I'll buy another iPad given my current lifestyle.
  - Yizahi 9mo ago
    As a tech support for a person with iOS gadgets, this is exactly some tasks which are way too hard on iPad. Emails getting lost because default Mail app was flaky, so I need to install Gmail app. Travel involves tickets, aka files. Now I need to help find the files in the locked down hell of a UI and figure out how to send them to a different app. Bonus points if they were archived and need unpacking. Messaging - some accounts tied to an old number, and a new number is needed to, well, make calls, and Apple generously doesn't provide dualsim option outside of China, so now I need to figure out sync between two devices with two sims, and then some messengers don't allow that while others do, and then I need to explain all that to an elderly non-IT person... In short - it's a mess, every time any task outside of doomscrolling an watching YT arises on iOS.

lonelyasacloud 9mo ago

That will be part of it. The main driver though that they've been working on for years is trying to figure out how to add just enough desktop to UIKit to allow them to kill off AppKit as a separate thing.