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I’ll never use Tor because I have no idea what the Tor client is actually doing. Is it enabling someone to use my network connection for cybercrime without my k

I’ll never use Tor because I have no idea what the Tor client is actually doing. Is it enabling someone to use my network connection for cybercrime without my knowledge? No thanks.

dmantis 10mo ago
Clients are never used as relays in TOR. You never route anyone's traffic until you setup it yourself. And you can't miss that part, and it's not a default, and requires additional configuration. Also relays (not exit nodes) are pretty safe to operate and running them is a decent thing, supporting free internet instead of a corporate ads machine, let's not frame it as a "crime support".
- tbrownaw 10mo ago
  > Also relays (not exit nodes) are pretty safe to operate and running them is a decent thing, supporting free internet instead of a corporate ads machine, let's not frame it as a "crime support". Well the purpose of using Tor is to prevent any network operators from knowing who you're talking to. Which AIUI is primarily a concern if either you're not allowed to talk to whoever ("great firewall" type things), or you risk getting in trouble for talking to whoever (Silk Road etc, or disfavored politics). I guess if you're worried about hacks and doxxing rather than LE? Or if you only call things crime when they should be illegal rather than when they formally are?
  - flipped 10mo ago
    LE relies on opsec failures which is very clear on their busts. They are incompetent hypocrite fools.
reorder9695 10mo ago
Using Tor browser and running a Tor node are different things, by using the browser you are not contributing to the network, you're just accessing it. If you're worried about someone using your network connection for cybercrime you shouldn't run a Tor node (although there is significantly less risk with a relay node), but you shouldn't worry about using regular Tor.
- flipped 10mo ago
  > by using the browser you are not contributing to the networK That's false to some extent. Tor's promise comes from it's vast population of users. The more users it has, the better it is to improve everyone's anonymity. So in a way, even by using it, you are helping Tor network. And please, save the "criminal" bs (meant for the original comment).
  - coldtea 10mo ago
    This response stretches "pedantic correction" to new levels.
    - lxgr 10mo ago
      Why? The utility of any network grows with the number of participants, even that of inherently asymmetric networks that strictly distinguish "producers" and "consumers". (More eyeballs make the network more valuable to content providers.) This might not be how courts determine culpability of redistributing any potentially illegal content, of course.
      - coldtea 10mo ago
        >This might not be how courts determine culpability of redistributing any potentially illegal content, of course. Which is precisely the point of this discussion. Might as well argue "By protecting the environment you're supporting the drug trade, because people that a climate catastrophe would wipe out will be able to be drug users".
    - flipped 10mo ago
      It's literally outline by Tor Project team, if you care to even read from official sources.
      - coldtea 10mo ago
        This here response continues to stretch "pedantic correction" to new levels. What's "literally outlined" I'd guess is that the utility of the Tor network increases with adoption which nobody ever doubted. What is discard is the tenuous over-stretched argument in this thread regarding fears of legality, that went like this: GP: Using Tor browser and running a Tor node are different things, by using the browser you are not contributing to the network, you're just accessing it. P: That's false to some extent. Tor's promise comes from it's vast population of users. The more users it has, the better it is to improve everyone's anonymity. So in a way, even by using it, you are helping Tor network. As if that what was discussed...
Froztnova 10mo ago
Tor doesn't work like this. i2p, however, does. At least by default.
lxgr 10mo ago
As others have mentioned, that's not what Tor does by default. Just because you don't know how it works doesn't mean that it's generally unknowable. And conversely, it's enough to visit a random website running WebTorrent or just a plain HTTP DDoS attack to possibly "use your connection for cybercrime". Since RFC 3514 unfortunately never gained traction, distinguishing good, bad, and illegal traffic remains difficult.

I’ll never use Tor because I have no idea what the Tor client is actually doing. Is it enabling someone to use my network connection for cybercrime without my knowledge? No thanks.

dmantis 10mo ago

Clients are never used as relays in TOR. You never route anyone's traffic until you setup it yourself. And you can't miss that part, and it's not a default, and requires additional configuration. Also relays (not exit nodes) are pretty safe to operate and running them is a decent thing, supporting free internet instead of a corporate ads machine, let's not frame it as a "crime support".

tbrownaw 10mo ago
> Also relays (not exit nodes) are pretty safe to operate and running them is a decent thing, supporting free internet instead of a corporate ads machine, let's not frame it as a "crime support". Well the purpose of using Tor is to prevent any network operators from knowing who you're talking to. Which AIUI is primarily a concern if either you're not allowed to talk to whoever ("great firewall" type things), or you risk getting in trouble for talking to whoever (Silk Road etc, or disfavored politics). I guess if you're worried about hacks and doxxing rather than LE? Or if you only call things crime when they should be illegal rather than when they formally are?
- flipped 10mo ago
  LE relies on opsec failures which is very clear on their busts. They are incompetent hypocrite fools.

reorder9695 10mo ago

Using Tor browser and running a Tor node are different things, by using the browser you are not contributing to the network, you're just accessing it. If you're worried about someone using your network connection for cybercrime you shouldn't run a Tor node (although there is significantly less risk with a relay node), but you shouldn't worry about using regular Tor.

flipped 10mo ago
> by using the browser you are not contributing to the networK That's false to some extent. Tor's promise comes from it's vast population of users. The more users it has, the better it is to improve everyone's anonymity. So in a way, even by using it, you are helping Tor network. And please, save the "criminal" bs (meant for the original comment).
- coldtea 10mo ago
  This response stretches "pedantic correction" to new levels.
  - lxgr 10mo ago
    Why? The utility of any network grows with the number of participants, even that of inherently asymmetric networks that strictly distinguish "producers" and "consumers". (More eyeballs make the network more valuable to content providers.) This might not be how courts determine culpability of redistributing any potentially illegal content, of course.
    - coldtea 10mo ago
      >This might not be how courts determine culpability of redistributing any potentially illegal content, of course. Which is precisely the point of this discussion. Might as well argue "By protecting the environment you're supporting the drug trade, because people that a climate catastrophe would wipe out will be able to be drug users".
  - flipped 10mo ago
    It's literally outline by Tor Project team, if you care to even read from official sources.
    - coldtea 10mo ago
      This here response continues to stretch "pedantic correction" to new levels. What's "literally outlined" I'd guess is that the utility of the Tor network increases with adoption which nobody ever doubted. What is discard is the tenuous over-stretched argument in this thread regarding fears of legality, that went like this: GP: Using Tor browser and running a Tor node are different things, by using the browser you are not contributing to the network, you're just accessing it. P: That's false to some extent. Tor's promise comes from it's vast population of users. The more users it has, the better it is to improve everyone's anonymity. So in a way, even by using it, you are helping Tor network. As if that what was discussed...

Froztnova 10mo ago

Tor doesn't work like this. i2p, however, does. At least by default.

lxgr 10mo ago

As others have mentioned, that's not what Tor does by default. Just because you don't know how it works doesn't mean that it's generally unknowable. And conversely, it's enough to visit a random website running WebTorrent or just a plain HTTP DDoS attack to possibly "use your connection for cybercrime". Since RFC 3514 unfortunately never gained traction, distinguishing good, bad, and illegal traffic remains difficult.