5 ms·

> Why do Americans want fascism? Americans don't want to expend their tax dollars on folks willing to break the law for financial gain.

by 15155 10mo ago

frogperson 10mo ago
This is a very shortsighted and frankly dumb argument. You would give up constitutional rights, to allow an unchecked police force, to arrest anyone they want, to save a few tax dollars? So stupid.
- R_D_Olivaw 10mo ago
  All his replies in this thread are this false kneejerk boomerism. Sad, sick people. No empathy. No heart.
  - 15155 10mo ago
    "No empathy" - how about not wanting to fund criminal enterprises using the tax dollars of hard-working Americans? Who has empathy for them - the people financing this "charity?" Why is importing unskilled foreigners the hill to die on?
    - bakies 10mo ago
      not all foreigners are unskilled
      - 15155 10mo ago
        How many engineers and doctors are wading across the Rio Grande?
        bakies 10mo ago
        How many of these supposedly "gang banger illegal immigrants" being detained by ICE are here legally and not criminals?
        15155 10mo ago
        I don't really care, and this isn't a valid retort. Why should some be allowed to skip the line? If they are skilled, H-1B, O-1, etc. visas should be obtainable. There's no implicit right to migrate wherever one chooses regardless of the laws of that country, sorry!
        amanaplanacanal 10mo ago
        The right to travel is a basic human right, whether any particular government recognizes it or not. People have been migrating to make a better life for themselves since humans have existed. Your ancestors did it, my ancestors did it. Good luck sweeping back the tide.
        15155 10mo ago
        > Good luck sweeping back the tide. $170B should make a big dent! Southern border encounters are way down: I think it's working!
        goatlover 10mo ago
        And how much do you think illegal immigration is costing tax payers for medical care in comparison?
        amanaplanacanal 10mo ago
        Exactly, none. Illegal immigrants get no federal health care by law.
        bakies 10mo ago
        Dont bother, the user arguing doesnt care about laws, he cares about hurting immigrants for the sake that they're immigrants
        bakies 10mo ago
    - mindslight 10mo ago
      > not wanting to fund criminal enterprises using the tax dollars of hard-working Americans? Please stick to the point and tell us - if this is your concern then why are you cheering on the large-scale openly criminal enterprise ? The total criminality and total cost of illegal (illegible!) immigrants is dwarfed by the current regime trashing our Constitution, trashing our economy, ballooning the debt, and trashing our standing as world leader, all to put our wealth in their own pockets. So please again, tell us, if this is really your actual concern why are you continuing to cheer support for the absolute worst offenders? Because they pointed at some outgroups and told you to distract yourself with them? Try having some self-respect.
      - 15155 10mo ago
        Yawn. My concern goes far beyond monetary cost, given that political districts count illegal immigrants for purposes of representation (census) and that birthright citizenship exists. By encouraging illegal immigration ("sanctuary cities"), you can "buy" depressed wages for the portion of society in need of the most help, House seats, electoral votes, and voters at the expense of the nation's citizenry at large.
        mindslight 10mo ago
        You were narrowly driving focus on "tax dollars". I was referencing costs beyond the monetary - the corrosive effect on what had remained of the rule of law, and consequently on individual liberty. The fish rots from the head - you can't throw away these things while imagining such actions are necessary to save them. > political districts count illegal immigrants for purposes of representation (census) > you can "buy" depressed wages for portion of society in need of the most help, House seats, electoral votes Your first sentence implies that the problem is representation of such areas going up. Your second sentence implies that the problem is representation of such areas is going down. Which is it? Because really, it feels like this is the minimally-defensible remnant of the nonsense trope that illegible immigrants are voting - essentially handwaving implying "bad people" are responsible for creating our bad outcomes, rather than the reality that our political candidates are a race to the bottom and that our government has become wholly bought by corporate interests (open season under Trump). Reassigning a few House seats is rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic - we're going to be paying for this Trumpist tantrum for decades, assuming we can even right the ship afterwards. (also I will note that you have tacitly agreed that the current regime is a massive criminal enterprise stealing our "tax dollars" and accumulated national wealth)
bakies 10mo ago
the last election speaks otherwise
pepperball 10mo ago
> Americans don't want to expend their tax dollars on folks willing to break the law for financial gain. Then why do they keep electing the lackeys of those people into office. The American people are idiots.
tech_ken 10mo ago
You'll spend way more tax money to haul them across the border than you would to just print them a permit to live and work in the community they've been contributing to for years. Every study ever conducted on the issue has concluded that undocumented immigrants contribute far more to the economy than they consume in public welfare dollars. You've let the actual tax dollar parasites pawn the blame on a scapegoat because you're addicted to being angry.
- 15155 10mo ago
  > You'll spend way more tax money to haul them across the border than you would to just print them a permit to live and work in the community they've been contributing to for years At the expense of legal immigrants who bothered to do it the right way. Law enforcement isn't free, unfortunately. > Every study ever conducted on the issue has concluded that undocumented immigrants contribute far more to the economy than they consume in public welfare dollars Some of these studies exist for legal immigrants, cite the one making this case for illegals? Do these "studies" account for second-order effects on housing, local job markets, etc.?
  - tech_ken 10mo ago
    > Do these "studies" account for second-order effects on housing, local job markets, etc.? Yes everything improves. Displaced workers find new jobs, markets and economies expand, etc. etc. > At the expense of legal immigrants who bothered to do it the right way. This is just nonsense, immigration isn't a zero-sum game. > Some of these studies exist for legal immigrants, cite the one making this case for illegals? Google it, I'm at work edit: had a lull, here you go https://www.epi.org/publication/unauthorized-immigrants/ https://www.epi.org/publication/unauthorized-immigrants/ The money quote: > If we examine just the net fiscal impact of unauthorized immigrants, even this is positive, despite the fact that lacking work authorization also means being trapped in low-wage work and being unable to adequately assert one’s labor and employment rights. A prime reason the net contribution is, nonetheless, positive is that many unauthorized immigrants pay income taxes and have Social Security taxes withheld yet are generally ineligible for government benefits and services.
  - 10mo ago

> Why do Americans want fascism? Americans don't want to expend their tax dollars on folks willing to break the law for financial gain.

by 15155 10mo ago

> Why do Americans want fascism? Americans don't want to expend their tax dollars on folks willing to break the law for financial gain.

frogperson 10mo ago

This is a very shortsighted and frankly dumb argument. You would give up constitutional rights, to allow an unchecked police force, to arrest anyone they want, to save a few tax dollars? So stupid.

R_D_Olivaw 10mo ago
All his replies in this thread are this false kneejerk boomerism. Sad, sick people. No empathy. No heart.
- 15155 10mo ago
  "No empathy" - how about not wanting to fund criminal enterprises using the tax dollars of hard-working Americans? Who has empathy for them - the people financing this "charity?" Why is importing unskilled foreigners the hill to die on?
  - bakies 10mo ago
    not all foreigners are unskilled
    - 15155 10mo ago
      How many engineers and doctors are wading across the Rio Grande?
      - bakies 10mo ago
        How many of these supposedly "gang banger illegal immigrants" being detained by ICE are here legally and not criminals?
        15155 10mo ago
        I don't really care, and this isn't a valid retort. Why should some be allowed to skip the line? If they are skilled, H-1B, O-1, etc. visas should be obtainable. There's no implicit right to migrate wherever one chooses regardless of the laws of that country, sorry!
        amanaplanacanal 10mo ago
        The right to travel is a basic human right, whether any particular government recognizes it or not. People have been migrating to make a better life for themselves since humans have existed. Your ancestors did it, my ancestors did it. Good luck sweeping back the tide.
        15155 10mo ago
        > Good luck sweeping back the tide. $170B should make a big dent! Southern border encounters are way down: I think it's working!
        goatlover 10mo ago
        And how much do you think illegal immigration is costing tax payers for medical care in comparison?
        amanaplanacanal 10mo ago
        Exactly, none. Illegal immigrants get no federal health care by law.
        bakies 10mo ago
        Dont bother, the user arguing doesnt care about laws, he cares about hurting immigrants for the sake that they're immigrants
        bakies 10mo ago
  - mindslight 10mo ago
    > not wanting to fund criminal enterprises using the tax dollars of hard-working Americans? Please stick to the point and tell us - if this is your concern then why are you cheering on the large-scale openly criminal enterprise ? The total criminality and total cost of illegal (illegible!) immigrants is dwarfed by the current regime trashing our Constitution, trashing our economy, ballooning the debt, and trashing our standing as world leader, all to put our wealth in their own pockets. So please again, tell us, if this is really your actual concern why are you continuing to cheer support for the absolute worst offenders? Because they pointed at some outgroups and told you to distract yourself with them? Try having some self-respect.
    - 15155 10mo ago
      Yawn. My concern goes far beyond monetary cost, given that political districts count illegal immigrants for purposes of representation (census) and that birthright citizenship exists. By encouraging illegal immigration ("sanctuary cities"), you can "buy" depressed wages for the portion of society in need of the most help, House seats, electoral votes, and voters at the expense of the nation's citizenry at large.
      - mindslight 10mo ago
        You were narrowly driving focus on "tax dollars". I was referencing costs beyond the monetary - the corrosive effect on what had remained of the rule of law, and consequently on individual liberty. The fish rots from the head - you can't throw away these things while imagining such actions are necessary to save them. > political districts count illegal immigrants for purposes of representation (census) > you can "buy" depressed wages for portion of society in need of the most help, House seats, electoral votes Your first sentence implies that the problem is representation of such areas going up. Your second sentence implies that the problem is representation of such areas is going down. Which is it? Because really, it feels like this is the minimally-defensible remnant of the nonsense trope that illegible immigrants are voting - essentially handwaving implying "bad people" are responsible for creating our bad outcomes, rather than the reality that our political candidates are a race to the bottom and that our government has become wholly bought by corporate interests (open season under Trump). Reassigning a few House seats is rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic - we're going to be paying for this Trumpist tantrum for decades, assuming we can even right the ship afterwards. (also I will note that you have tacitly agreed that the current regime is a massive criminal enterprise stealing our "tax dollars" and accumulated national wealth)

bakies 10mo ago

the last election speaks otherwise

pepperball 10mo ago

> Americans don't want to expend their tax dollars on folks willing to break the law for financial gain. Then why do they keep electing the lackeys of those people into office. The American people are idiots.

tech_ken 10mo ago

You'll spend way more tax money to haul them across the border than you would to just print them a permit to live and work in the community they've been contributing to for years. Every study ever conducted on the issue has concluded that undocumented immigrants contribute far more to the economy than they consume in public welfare dollars. You've let the actual tax dollar parasites pawn the blame on a scapegoat because you're addicted to being angry.

15155 10mo ago
> You'll spend way more tax money to haul them across the border than you would to just print them a permit to live and work in the community they've been contributing to for years At the expense of legal immigrants who bothered to do it the right way. Law enforcement isn't free, unfortunately. > Every study ever conducted on the issue has concluded that undocumented immigrants contribute far more to the economy than they consume in public welfare dollars Some of these studies exist for legal immigrants, cite the one making this case for illegals? Do these "studies" account for second-order effects on housing, local job markets, etc.?
- tech_ken 10mo ago
  > Do these "studies" account for second-order effects on housing, local job markets, etc.? Yes everything improves. Displaced workers find new jobs, markets and economies expand, etc. etc. > At the expense of legal immigrants who bothered to do it the right way. This is just nonsense, immigration isn't a zero-sum game. > Some of these studies exist for legal immigrants, cite the one making this case for illegals? Google it, I'm at work edit: had a lull, here you go https://www.epi.org/publication/unauthorized-immigrants/ https://www.epi.org/publication/unauthorized-immigrants/ The money quote: > If we examine just the net fiscal impact of unauthorized immigrants, even this is positive, despite the fact that lacking work authorization also means being trapped in low-wage work and being unable to adequately assert one’s labor and employment rights. A prime reason the net contribution is, nonetheless, positive is that many unauthorized immigrants pay income taxes and have Social Security taxes withheld yet are generally ineligible for government benefits and services.
- 10mo ago