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I'm just confused about why you think I'm running a smoke-and-mirrors shop. I have a ton of testimonials from people thanking me for helping them raise their r

by bdunn 14y ago

I'm just confused about why you think I'm running a smoke-and-mirrors shop. I have a ton of testimonials from people thanking me for helping them raise their rates. If you email me, I'll send them to you. I take a lot of offense that you think I have "the proper degree of BS mixed together with things I've learned in a short period of time" and that I'm "taking advantage of people." I am delivering value in exchange for money. If people didn't think the value outweighed the cost, I'd be getting refund requests. By stating in your profile that you had a really expensive, old computer back in the day - I'm guessing you're older, and there's ageism at play against me? My customers don't care what degrees or credentials I have attached to my name, as long as I deliver on my promise - which I have.

bravoyankee 14y ago
You and Patrick have done an exemplary job of leveraging the herd mentality, but some of us are getting tired of the pitch. How many times are you going to try and milk this cow?
- jbigelow76 14y ago
  As long as people keep buying I'd assume.
- aytekin 14y ago
  I received a lot of value from Patrick's lifecycle emails course. I hope he creates more courses/products like that.
  - thomaslangston 14y ago
    For me specifically it was being able to talk to our head finance guy intelligently about how cash flow, customer acquisition costs, and customer lifetime value relate. While I can't put a dollar amount on it yet, I can say I think our finance guy's opinion of me was raised a notch.
- ahoyhere 14y ago
  "Herd" "milk" "cow" --> classic poisoning the well, utterly (udderly?) without basis or merit. Factual arguments make us smarter. What you are writing makes the discourse dumber. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well
- timf 14y ago
  Patrick was writing prolifically here and on his blog for years with no relevant product at all, just a lot of interesting insight into his bingo operation. The recent lifecycle email course is his first product directly relevant to us, your comment about being tired of the pitch is confusing.
  - larrys 14y ago
    "your comment about being tired of the pitch is confusing It actually makes sense in context though. The parent's profile states the their account was setup 12 days ago. Of course it could be another account for someone on HN for a longer time (a throwaway) that would know what you are saying but my guess (because of the comment) that's simply not the case. The parent has leveraged their lack of experience on HN to actually throw patio11 and the OP into the same category. I've seen this happen in other cases where someone has limited experience in a particular area and tends to "lever" any new thing they observe to greater importance than it should. (For example there are time periods on HN where certain articles are in vogue. If you joined during that period you would get the impression that that was always the case most likely.)
larrys 14y ago
"you think I'm running a smoke-and-mirrors shop" Where in my comment did I say you were running a smoke and mirrors shop? Show me the words that implied that in my comment? (Others have of course - I didn't say "yeah I agree" either.) I asked you a question and gave you an opportunity to detail "why your advice is so valuable" and I gave you my reasons (before asking that) why I was skeptical. "I have a ton of testimonials from people thanking me for helping them raise their rates. If you email me, I'll send them to you." If you have a ton of testimonials there are certainly ones (a percentage of the ton) that you could get the people who gave you the testimonials to allow you to post publicly, right? Isn't that basic marketing? (It is.) So why did you not post some? By the way the use of the word "testimonial" implies to me more than someone thanking you by email. I can understand why you wouldn't post a snip from an email that someone sent you. But you called them "testimonials" not an email thank you. Either way it would seem that if they are happy they would allow you to use the testimonial - even firstname, last initial and type of company (if not full info). Sorry you take offense to the "BS". I gave an example of how I BS'd and got somewhere with it. Donald Trump and many successful business leaders have used "BS" to get ahead. So have politicians. BSing is not the same as lying. I understand that hackers have some issue with puffery. That is their choice. (By the way I've also observed over the years how lack of ability to BS holds you back in business.) "I'd be getting refund requests." Why not post the percentage of people who request refund? Is it 2%, 10%, 0%. Seems that would be a good marketing angle if you were able to get up into the 90's, right? "guessing you're older, and there's ageism at play against me" I would do the same thing to someone who was older. "what degrees or credentials" I didn't raise any issue with degrees or credentials at all. If you had a degree from Harvard I wouldn't have accepted that as anything given what you were trying to sell. I merely wanted backup for what you were doing. "as long as I deliver on my promise" If you reread one of my replies to you will see that I said this: "If I challenge you it's for discussion. Also to point out that others might be thinking the things that I think (at least some people) but not raise the issue. And you could loose business from them." I have learned much about people's reaction to what I say on HN. I am pointing out to you (I think in a relatively nice way) the impression that I had and then asked some questions. You can take that info into consideration when you go and try to sell to the world of "older people" -or- people who don't spend time on HN. Because you will need it. I'm not selling anything to people who read HN so I will speak my mind as to what I think. Here's the thing also to remember. Selling to people, a wide range of people is not the same as "getting a job" or "finding a girl/guy". You can be "slightly crazy" (as I was just called by someone) and still do fine if you only need 1 wife or 1 job. But if you are selling to many people you have to take into account how what you do might alter what they think.

by bdunn 14y ago

bravoyankee 14y ago

You and Patrick have done an exemplary job of leveraging the herd mentality, but some of us are getting tired of the pitch. How many times are you going to try and milk this cow?

jbigelow76 14y ago
As long as people keep buying I'd assume.
aytekin 14y ago
I received a lot of value from Patrick's lifecycle emails course. I hope he creates more courses/products like that.
- thomaslangston 14y ago
  For me specifically it was being able to talk to our head finance guy intelligently about how cash flow, customer acquisition costs, and customer lifetime value relate. While I can't put a dollar amount on it yet, I can say I think our finance guy's opinion of me was raised a notch.
ahoyhere 14y ago
"Herd" "milk" "cow" --> classic poisoning the well, utterly (udderly?) without basis or merit. Factual arguments make us smarter. What you are writing makes the discourse dumber. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well
timf 14y ago
Patrick was writing prolifically here and on his blog for years with no relevant product at all, just a lot of interesting insight into his bingo operation. The recent lifecycle email course is his first product directly relevant to us, your comment about being tired of the pitch is confusing.
- larrys 14y ago
  "your comment about being tired of the pitch is confusing It actually makes sense in context though. The parent's profile states the their account was setup 12 days ago. Of course it could be another account for someone on HN for a longer time (a throwaway) that would know what you are saying but my guess (because of the comment) that's simply not the case. The parent has leveraged their lack of experience on HN to actually throw patio11 and the OP into the same category. I've seen this happen in other cases where someone has limited experience in a particular area and tends to "lever" any new thing they observe to greater importance than it should. (For example there are time periods on HN where certain articles are in vogue. If you joined during that period you would get the impression that that was always the case most likely.)

larrys 14y ago

"you think I'm running a smoke-and-mirrors shop" Where in my comment did I say you were running a smoke and mirrors shop? Show me the words that implied that in my comment? (Others have of course - I didn't say "yeah I agree" either.) I asked you a question and gave you an opportunity to detail "why your advice is so valuable" and I gave you my reasons (before asking that) why I was skeptical. "I have a ton of testimonials from people thanking me for helping them raise their rates. If you email me, I'll send them to you." If you have a ton of testimonials there are certainly ones (a percentage of the ton) that you could get the people who gave you the testimonials to allow you to post publicly, right? Isn't that basic marketing? (It is.) So why did you not post some? By the way the use of the word "testimonial" implies to me more than someone thanking you by email. I can understand why you wouldn't post a snip from an email that someone sent you. But you called them "testimonials" not an email thank you. Either way it would seem that if they are happy they would allow you to use the testimonial - even firstname, last initial and type of company (if not full info). Sorry you take offense to the "BS". I gave an example of how I BS'd and got somewhere with it. Donald Trump and many successful business leaders have used "BS" to get ahead. So have politicians. BSing is not the same as lying. I understand that hackers have some issue with puffery. That is their choice. (By the way I've also observed over the years how lack of ability to BS holds you back in business.) "I'd be getting refund requests." Why not post the percentage of people who request refund? Is it 2%, 10%, 0%. Seems that would be a good marketing angle if you were able to get up into the 90's, right? "guessing you're older, and there's ageism at play against me" I would do the same thing to someone who was older. "what degrees or credentials" I didn't raise any issue with degrees or credentials at all. If you had a degree from Harvard I wouldn't have accepted that as anything given what you were trying to sell. I merely wanted backup for what you were doing. "as long as I deliver on my promise" If you reread one of my replies to you will see that I said this: "If I challenge you it's for discussion. Also to point out that others might be thinking the things that I think (at least some people) but not raise the issue. And you could loose business from them." I have learned much about people's reaction to what I say on HN. I am pointing out to you (I think in a relatively nice way) the impression that I had and then asked some questions. You can take that info into consideration when you go and try to sell to the world of "older people" -or- people who don't spend time on HN. Because you will need it. I'm not selling anything to people who read HN so I will speak my mind as to what I think. Here's the thing also to remember. Selling to people, a wide range of people is not the same as "getting a job" or "finding a girl/guy". You can be "slightly crazy" (as I was just called by someone) and still do fine if you only need 1 wife or 1 job. But if you are selling to many people you have to take into account how what you do might alter what they think.