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The ubiquity of fat religious Americans with no impulse control suggests that religious vs secular is perhaps not the right reference frame to examine this part

The ubiquity of fat religious Americans with no impulse control suggests that religious vs secular is perhaps not the right reference frame to examine this particular issue. Your argument about abstinence being the most practical solution for some people is a reasonable one, no need to join the bandwagon and also make it a pointless culture war issue.

rayiner 10mo ago
I'm not making a culture war point, I'm comparing philosophies in secular terms. It just so happens that, in America, religious people tend to focus on abstinence and secular people tend to focus on responsible enjoyment. Most American denominations do not treat food as sinful, so the prevalence of fat religious Americans isn't a rebuttal to my point. If you look at denomations that do, the statistics are quite remarkable. Mormonism, for example, is a remarkable cultural technology: https://www.deseret.com/2010/4/13/20375744/ucla-study-proves-mormons-live-longer https://www.deseret.com/2010/4/13/20375744/ucla-study-proves.... Another example would be New England congregationalists, who have an ethos that "food is for fuel, not for enjoyment." We have many retirees from that demographic in my town and they're all unusually thin and healthy.
- kelipso 10mo ago
  Another example, the Seventh-day Adventists, even studied for their longevity.
- toasterlovin 10mo ago
  FWIW, Mormons and New England Congregationalists are essentially offshoots of the same ethnic group (Puritans), so there may be a genetic confound.
- ajam1507 10mo ago
  This ignores the cost of living as a mormon for 85 years
  - rayiner 10mo ago
    According to Pew, Mormons are happier too: https://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2025/06/are-latter-day-saints-happier-the-pew-religious-landscape-survey-relationship-with-the-church-and-flourishing/ https://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2025/06/are-latter-day.... Utah is also ranked #1 in upward mobility in the country: https://www.archbridgeinstitute.org/social-mobility-in-the-50-states/ https://www.archbridgeinstitute.org/social-mobility-in-the-5.... So healthier, happier, and with more economic opportunities. All from a group of religious minorities who live in a desert with no natural resources. Quite remarkable.
    - 5upplied_demand 10mo ago
      > who live in a desert with no natural resources. Quite remarkable. Almost as remarkable as your ability to completely invent something, and then present as a fact. It is similar to how you claimed Trump has a concrete policy of abandoning unfounded foreign policy engagements 2 weeks before he invaded Venezuela on charges the DOJ now admits were fake [0]. The state itself debunks your claim, from geology.utah.gov: "Utah has abundant and diverse energy resources including conventional fossil fuels, unconventional oil shale and oil sand resources, and areas suitable for renewable resource development" [1]. Site selection magazine also disagrees [2]. Utah Business disagrees, too, specifically: "Utah is blessed with abundant natural resources, many of which have played a critical role in shaping our economy" [3]. Another one: "In 2019, Utah remained one of the top 10 U.S. states for metals and industrial minerals production, with continued active exploration" [4]. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/05/us/trump-venezuela-drug-cartel-de-los-soles.html https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/05/us/trump-venezuela-drug-c... [1] https://geology.utah.gov/energy-minerals/ https://geology.utah.gov/energy-minerals/ [2] https://siteselection.com/got-minerals/ https://siteselection.com/got-minerals/ [3] https://www.utahbusiness.com/thought-leadership/2023/07/17/utahs-natural-resources-our-competitive-advantage-economic-growth-job-creation/ https://www.utahbusiness.com/thought-leadership/2023/07/17/u... [4] https://naturalresources.utah.gov/dnr-newsfeed/utah-one-of-the-top-10-states-for-mining-production-value-up-in-2019/ https://naturalresources.utah.gov/dnr-newsfeed/utah-one-of-t...

rayiner 10mo ago

I'm not making a culture war point, I'm comparing philosophies in secular terms. It just so happens that, in America, religious people tend to focus on abstinence and secular people tend to focus on responsible enjoyment. Most American denominations do not treat food as sinful, so the prevalence of fat religious Americans isn't a rebuttal to my point. If you look at denomations that do, the statistics are quite remarkable. Mormonism, for example, is a remarkable cultural technology: https://www.deseret.com/2010/4/13/20375744/ucla-study-proves-mormons-live-longer https://www.deseret.com/2010/4/13/20375744/ucla-study-proves.... Another example would be New England congregationalists, who have an ethos that "food is for fuel, not for enjoyment." We have many retirees from that demographic in my town and they're all unusually thin and healthy.

kelipso 10mo ago
Another example, the Seventh-day Adventists, even studied for their longevity.
toasterlovin 10mo ago
FWIW, Mormons and New England Congregationalists are essentially offshoots of the same ethnic group (Puritans), so there may be a genetic confound.
ajam1507 10mo ago
This ignores the cost of living as a mormon for 85 years
- rayiner 10mo ago
  According to Pew, Mormons are happier too: https://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2025/06/are-latter-day-saints-happier-the-pew-religious-landscape-survey-relationship-with-the-church-and-flourishing/ https://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2025/06/are-latter-day.... Utah is also ranked #1 in upward mobility in the country: https://www.archbridgeinstitute.org/social-mobility-in-the-50-states/ https://www.archbridgeinstitute.org/social-mobility-in-the-5.... So healthier, happier, and with more economic opportunities. All from a group of religious minorities who live in a desert with no natural resources. Quite remarkable.
  - 5upplied_demand 10mo ago
    > who live in a desert with no natural resources. Quite remarkable. Almost as remarkable as your ability to completely invent something, and then present as a fact. It is similar to how you claimed Trump has a concrete policy of abandoning unfounded foreign policy engagements 2 weeks before he invaded Venezuela on charges the DOJ now admits were fake [0]. The state itself debunks your claim, from geology.utah.gov: "Utah has abundant and diverse energy resources including conventional fossil fuels, unconventional oil shale and oil sand resources, and areas suitable for renewable resource development" [1]. Site selection magazine also disagrees [2]. Utah Business disagrees, too, specifically: "Utah is blessed with abundant natural resources, many of which have played a critical role in shaping our economy" [3]. Another one: "In 2019, Utah remained one of the top 10 U.S. states for metals and industrial minerals production, with continued active exploration" [4]. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/05/us/trump-venezuela-drug-cartel-de-los-soles.html https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/05/us/trump-venezuela-drug-c... [1] https://geology.utah.gov/energy-minerals/ https://geology.utah.gov/energy-minerals/ [2] https://siteselection.com/got-minerals/ https://siteselection.com/got-minerals/ [3] https://www.utahbusiness.com/thought-leadership/2023/07/17/utahs-natural-resources-our-competitive-advantage-economic-growth-job-creation/ https://www.utahbusiness.com/thought-leadership/2023/07/17/u... [4] https://naturalresources.utah.gov/dnr-newsfeed/utah-one-of-the-top-10-states-for-mining-production-value-up-in-2019/ https://naturalresources.utah.gov/dnr-newsfeed/utah-one-of-t...