I think we can agree that they are awful examples! The problem is, that when you try to reduce an example of "bad" english to the bare bones (for clarity), you

I think we can agree that they are awful examples! The problem is, that when you try to reduce an example of "bad" english to the bare bones (for clarity), you often end up with quite legitimate language. Even in Latin the occasional transgression is sort of allowed: "Alea iacta est" - that is of course "idium". I studied Latin via "Civis Romanus", "mental" and "idiot" (Mentor and Idium). An englander would of course say something far more erudite, than a course roman general, such as: "Fucking 'ave it, you twats".