2 ms·

Is there a mainstream distro that disregards all the legacy cruft? Gobo, but that’s not really mainstream. Mac OS?

by roger_ 9mo ago

deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]
wasting_time 9mo ago
NixOS and Guix are fairly established in this regard. macOS is certified Unix, and necessarily implements the "legacy" cruft.
- behnamoh 9mo ago
  at some point we gotta let go of legacy stuff tho, and Apple has shown in the past that they're not afraid of doing that.
- Imustaskforhelp 9mo ago
  I had written a similar comment here asking for people's opinion but I would like to add something that I know about which I didn't see in your list Tinycorelinux I know that it doesn't follow the best user practices etc. but I did find its tcz package format fascinating because they kind of work similar to mountable drives and I am not exactly sure but I am fairly certain that a modern package management system where two or more packages with conflicts etc. can run on the same system. I really enjoyed the idea of gobolinux as well. I haven't played with that but it would be good if some more mainstream os could also implement it. Nix and Guix are more mainstream but they also require to learn a new language and I think that we might need something in the middle like gobo but perhaps more mainstream or adding more ideas / additions perhaps? I would love it if someone can tell me about some projects we are missing to talk about and what they add on the table etc. I haven't tried Gobo though so I am not sure but I really wish more distros could add features like gobo, perhaps even having a gobofied debian/fedora eh?
  - yjftsjthsd-h 9mo ago
    I liked Tinycorelinux once upon a time but isn't it unmaintained now?
  - chuckadams 9mo ago
    Tinycore's package format sounds a lot like containers, except I imagine containers can do a whole lot more, what with namespaces and all. Can't say for sure, but it sounds like snap and flatpak are its spiritual successors.
dev_l1x_be 9mo ago
Not really. I wish we had a new OS based on the Linux kernel - the legacy (shared files, r/w mounted OS, etc). I think Google's Fuchsia has some interesting ideas.
rendaw 9mo ago
It was partial, but IIRC Arch Linux made the switch to get rid of at least some of the directories previously: https://archlinux.org/news/binaries-move-to-usrbin-requiring-update-intervention/ https://archlinux.org/news/binaries-move-to-usrbin-requiring... Edit: Oh haha, this article was posted 13 years ago and there was a similar thread which is how I dug up that link... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5944594 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5944594
loeg 9mo ago
I think most of them have started simplifying somewhat (/bin vs /usr/bin): https://systemd.io/THE_CASE_FOR_THE_USR_MERGE/ https://systemd.io/THE_CASE_FOR_THE_USR_MERGE/ (FWIW, Fedora 17 was released in 2012.)
em500 9mo ago
macOS has all of that (mostly inherited from NeXTSTEP which was significantly based on 4.3/4.4BSD). It's hidden by default in the GUI, visible in Terminal. Nowadays most end users just use /usr/local or /opt/local or whatever is managed by Homebrew or Macports.
olowe 9mo ago
Plan 9 is definitely not mainstream but readers of your comment's replies may find it interesting when looking into Unix/Linux cruft.

Is there a mainstream distro that disregards all the legacy cruft? Gobo, but that’s not really mainstream. Mac OS?

by roger_ 9mo ago

Is there a mainstream distro that disregards all the legacy cruft? Gobo, but that’s not really mainstream. Mac OS?

deleted 9mo ago

[deleted]

wasting_time 9mo ago

NixOS and Guix are fairly established in this regard. macOS is certified Unix, and necessarily implements the "legacy" cruft.

behnamoh 9mo ago
at some point we gotta let go of legacy stuff tho, and Apple has shown in the past that they're not afraid of doing that.
Imustaskforhelp 9mo ago
I had written a similar comment here asking for people's opinion but I would like to add something that I know about which I didn't see in your list Tinycorelinux I know that it doesn't follow the best user practices etc. but I did find its tcz package format fascinating because they kind of work similar to mountable drives and I am not exactly sure but I am fairly certain that a modern package management system where two or more packages with conflicts etc. can run on the same system. I really enjoyed the idea of gobolinux as well. I haven't played with that but it would be good if some more mainstream os could also implement it. Nix and Guix are more mainstream but they also require to learn a new language and I think that we might need something in the middle like gobo but perhaps more mainstream or adding more ideas / additions perhaps? I would love it if someone can tell me about some projects we are missing to talk about and what they add on the table etc. I haven't tried Gobo though so I am not sure but I really wish more distros could add features like gobo, perhaps even having a gobofied debian/fedora eh?
- yjftsjthsd-h 9mo ago
  I liked Tinycorelinux once upon a time but isn't it unmaintained now?
- chuckadams 9mo ago
  Tinycore's package format sounds a lot like containers, except I imagine containers can do a whole lot more, what with namespaces and all. Can't say for sure, but it sounds like snap and flatpak are its spiritual successors.

dev_l1x_be 9mo ago

Not really. I wish we had a new OS based on the Linux kernel - the legacy (shared files, r/w mounted OS, etc). I think Google's Fuchsia has some interesting ideas.

rendaw 9mo ago

It was partial, but IIRC Arch Linux made the switch to get rid of at least some of the directories previously: https://archlinux.org/news/binaries-move-to-usrbin-requiring-update-intervention/ https://archlinux.org/news/binaries-move-to-usrbin-requiring... Edit: Oh haha, this article was posted 13 years ago and there was a similar thread which is how I dug up that link... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5944594 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5944594

loeg 9mo ago

I think most of them have started simplifying somewhat (/bin vs /usr/bin): https://systemd.io/THE_CASE_FOR_THE_USR_MERGE/ https://systemd.io/THE_CASE_FOR_THE_USR_MERGE/ (FWIW, Fedora 17 was released in 2012.)

em500 9mo ago

macOS has all of that (mostly inherited from NeXTSTEP which was significantly based on 4.3/4.4BSD). It's hidden by default in the GUI, visible in Terminal. Nowadays most end users just use /usr/local or /opt/local or whatever is managed by Homebrew or Macports.

olowe 9mo ago

Plan 9 is definitely not mainstream but readers of your comment's replies may find it interesting when looking into Unix/Linux cruft.