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"Political correctness" I actually love political correctness, and people ranting about it always appear to me as deliberately obtuse and trying to avoid respo

"Political correctness" I actually love political correctness, and people ranting about it always appear to me as deliberately obtuse and trying to avoid responsibility for behaving in certain ways. Here's the thing: political correctness is not the same thing as Orwell's newspeak. It's about being recognizing that certain expressions are hurtful, and remaining conscious not only about what you want to say, but also what will be heard when you say it. It's also about the idea that the original author almost got, but not really: that maybe the divisive attributes shouldn't be mentioned when they're irrelevant (though the author is certainly wrong about gender's relevance. Yeah, it should be -- but it's not, and making gender activists shut up won't make it irrelevant). It's about recognizing that language actually shapes the social reality and the perception if certain ideas (both desirable and not) are something acceptable (there's some neat studies on how people choose their ideologies based on whether they perceive them as socially accepted). It's really sad that the concept ended up becoming a weasel word used by bullies to say "this person just complained about me being a bully, and that makes me feel uncomfortable".

tomp 14y ago
I'm not an American, so I might not be familiar of all the ways one ought to be politically correct, but let's focus on the one example that I do know: fat vs. overweight or horizontally-challenged or [silence]. My main objection with the idea that saying that someone is fat will hurt their feelings or make them feel bad is that no, it will NOT make them feel bad - rather, it will make them feel worse, because they must already feel bad. If someone is fat and they are ok with it, they wouldn't be hurt if I was pointing it out. It's just like I wouldn't be offended if someone called me a man, or European, or short/not tall, or geek, because I'm ok with all of those. Therefore, based on personal reflection, I believe that people that get offended by saying they are fat are people that don't like being fat. But in that case, they should be shamed, in other words encouraged to do something about it, to make a positive change in their lives! I find the idea that I should limit my own freedom of speech just so that other people can continue living in ignorance, ridiculous.
- JoachimSchipper 14y ago
  > [fat people] should be shamed, in other words encouraged to do something about it, to make a positive change in their lives! Have you considered all possible alternatives and decided that this was the best thing you could possibly do for them? Or was it just kinda convenient to do what you've always wanted to do anyway? Or, trying another tack, replace "fat" by "nerdy". > I find the idea that I should limit my own freedom of speech just so that other people can continue living in ignorance, ridiculous. Fat people pretty much all know they're overweight. Freedom of speech means specifically freedom from your local government censoring your speech; it doesn't mean you can be as offensive as you want without being called on it.
- LaGrange 14y ago
  Well, lets start with the fact that your personal reflection is bunk, and I'm not an american as well, but culturally aware enough to know that the european stereotype of Americans being really politically correct is actually present in an american "Europeans are politically correct" version. Also, "horizontally-challenged" is not something that really happens. Actual political correctness is either saying "overweight" when it's relevant, or keeping it to your own damn self when it's not. Now, to the personal reflection — people might rationally know that it's no-one's business how much they weight, but still be aware of the societal perception of their looks. They might be still healthy people, and they would be happy with their looks, but the reaction of society to their looks makes them feel bad anyway, and one of such reactions is using expressions such as "fat". As for "shaming" == "encouraging," it's just not true, to avoid harsher statements. In fact shaming is extremely discouraging to people, is mostly done without awareness if the person being shamed can or wants to actually change the state that caused shaming, and is just done to boost egos of people doing the shaming. It's only use is in discouraging extremely unwanted behaviors – such as, for example, shaming people whose looks don't conform to your particular standards of beauty. Oh, and "positive change" might be actually a load of bunk as well. And, finally, as to the "keeping in ignorance" remark, it's an extremely ignorant remark. For one, the "if irrelevant" is important here. My doctor can still tell me that the recently acquired extra load on my joints is probably contributing to my knee issues, interestingly enough without using the expression "fat slob", and people can talk about oppression of people of color in general or blacks, or immigrants in general or Mexicans in specific, depending on how specific the issues in question are. The words become "incorrect" when either used for no reason (why did you need to mention the race of a person doing that annoyed you on the street, for example?), or using the words that are racial slurs used specifically to offend.

tomp 14y ago

I'm not an American, so I might not be familiar of all the ways one ought to be politically correct, but let's focus on the one example that I do know: fat vs. overweight or horizontally-challenged or [silence]. My main objection with the idea that saying that someone is fat will hurt their feelings or make them feel bad is that no, it will NOT make them feel bad - rather, it will make them feel worse, because they must already feel bad. If someone is fat and they are ok with it, they wouldn't be hurt if I was pointing it out. It's just like I wouldn't be offended if someone called me a man, or European, or short/not tall, or geek, because I'm ok with all of those. Therefore, based on personal reflection, I believe that people that get offended by saying they are fat are people that don't like being fat. But in that case, they should be shamed, in other words encouraged to do something about it, to make a positive change in their lives! I find the idea that I should limit my own freedom of speech just so that other people can continue living in ignorance, ridiculous.

JoachimSchipper 14y ago
> [fat people] should be shamed, in other words encouraged to do something about it, to make a positive change in their lives! Have you considered all possible alternatives and decided that this was the best thing you could possibly do for them? Or was it just kinda convenient to do what you've always wanted to do anyway? Or, trying another tack, replace "fat" by "nerdy". > I find the idea that I should limit my own freedom of speech just so that other people can continue living in ignorance, ridiculous. Fat people pretty much all know they're overweight. Freedom of speech means specifically freedom from your local government censoring your speech; it doesn't mean you can be as offensive as you want without being called on it.
LaGrange 14y ago
Well, lets start with the fact that your personal reflection is bunk, and I'm not an american as well, but culturally aware enough to know that the european stereotype of Americans being really politically correct is actually present in an american "Europeans are politically correct" version. Also, "horizontally-challenged" is not something that really happens. Actual political correctness is either saying "overweight" when it's relevant, or keeping it to your own damn self when it's not. Now, to the personal reflection — people might rationally know that it's no-one's business how much they weight, but still be aware of the societal perception of their looks. They might be still healthy people, and they would be happy with their looks, but the reaction of society to their looks makes them feel bad anyway, and one of such reactions is using expressions such as "fat". As for "shaming" == "encouraging," it's just not true, to avoid harsher statements. In fact shaming is extremely discouraging to people, is mostly done without awareness if the person being shamed can or wants to actually change the state that caused shaming, and is just done to boost egos of people doing the shaming. It's only use is in discouraging extremely unwanted behaviors – such as, for example, shaming people whose looks don't conform to your particular standards of beauty. Oh, and "positive change" might be actually a load of bunk as well. And, finally, as to the "keeping in ignorance" remark, it's an extremely ignorant remark. For one, the "if irrelevant" is important here. My doctor can still tell me that the recently acquired extra load on my joints is probably contributing to my knee issues, interestingly enough without using the expression "fat slob", and people can talk about oppression of people of color in general or blacks, or immigrants in general or Mexicans in specific, depending on how specific the issues in question are. The words become "incorrect" when either used for no reason (why did you need to mention the race of a person doing that annoyed you on the street, for example?), or using the words that are racial slurs used specifically to offend.