5 ms·

I think he is saying that PC doesn't help, not that things will be fixed if PC is removed.

by zerostar07 14y ago

saraid216 14y ago
Except that it does help.
- zerostar07 14y ago
  I consider american PC towards women (or blacks etc) as a symptom. What makes you think it helps, other than overstating the problem (which in itself does not solve it)?
  - saraid216 14y ago
    Stating the problem is a step towards solving the problem. You can't solve something properly if you don't know it exists. How is that, by itself, not helping?
    - zerostar07 14y ago
      Because there are better avenues (despite initial reactions, gender quotas in some EU countries managed to change deeply rooted corporate attitudes). And sometimes PC is misleading. I imagine if your workplace says "Our company welcomes women", it implies that it shouldn't be taken for granted, which would be illegal.
      - baxrob 14y ago
        Unfortunately, the term "quota" has been uber-toxic in US politics for the past twenty+ years. So ... what is known as PC[1] (which I wish could just be called "common decency"[2], or "non-douche-ism") ... becomes an indispensable (if thin) lever. [1] Interesting, to me, because I think of it as starting in the late 1980s: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness [2] Credit to Vonnegut
  - rmc 14y ago
    Political Correctness is great if you are a minority. It means you have similar rights to the powerful group. As a gay man, I know I can mention the gender of my spouse (male!) in a workplace environment without being worried about being fired (say). Straight people have always (more or less) been able to mention their spouse in the workplace without fear of repercussion. Now I can too! Political Correctness means I don't have to watch every word I say in the office! It's done wonders for my freedom of speech.
    - zerostar07 14y ago
      But PC is only the first step! The more accepting a society is, the less PC is needed, because people embrace each other without a need for self-censorship and no one is offended.
      - rmc 14y ago
        Yes that's the end game
    - tomp 14y ago
      Can I just ask you, how is that PC? Wouldn't PC be exactly the opposite, not mentioning the gender and only refering to him as "my spouse" or "they"? Personally, I'd say that your workplace has an accepting culture where you don't need to be politically correct...
      - rmc 14y ago
        The workplace has to be PC, which means that other employees (and managers etc.) know that jokes about "the gay one" are unacceptable. It means that the company will have to be PC, so if they invite employee's partners to a work outing, they'd have to invite my husband. If they get a company perk (like health insurance, discount gym membership), they have to make sure that company isn't going to say "well Family Membership is only between 1 man and 1 woman".
        tomp 14y ago

I think he is saying that PC doesn't help, not that things will be fixed if PC is removed.

saraid216 14y ago

Except that it does help.

zerostar07 14y ago
I consider american PC towards women (or blacks etc) as a symptom. What makes you think it helps, other than overstating the problem (which in itself does not solve it)?
- saraid216 14y ago
  Stating the problem is a step towards solving the problem. You can't solve something properly if you don't know it exists. How is that, by itself, not helping?
  - zerostar07 14y ago
    Because there are better avenues (despite initial reactions, gender quotas in some EU countries managed to change deeply rooted corporate attitudes). And sometimes PC is misleading. I imagine if your workplace says "Our company welcomes women", it implies that it shouldn't be taken for granted, which would be illegal.
    - baxrob 14y ago
      Unfortunately, the term "quota" has been uber-toxic in US politics for the past twenty+ years. So ... what is known as PC[1] (which I wish could just be called "common decency"[2], or "non-douche-ism") ... becomes an indispensable (if thin) lever. [1] Interesting, to me, because I think of it as starting in the late 1980s: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness [2] Credit to Vonnegut
- rmc 14y ago
  Political Correctness is great if you are a minority. It means you have similar rights to the powerful group. As a gay man, I know I can mention the gender of my spouse (male!) in a workplace environment without being worried about being fired (say). Straight people have always (more or less) been able to mention their spouse in the workplace without fear of repercussion. Now I can too! Political Correctness means I don't have to watch every word I say in the office! It's done wonders for my freedom of speech.
  - zerostar07 14y ago
    But PC is only the first step! The more accepting a society is, the less PC is needed, because people embrace each other without a need for self-censorship and no one is offended.
    - rmc 14y ago
      Yes that's the end game
  - tomp 14y ago
    Can I just ask you, how is that PC? Wouldn't PC be exactly the opposite, not mentioning the gender and only refering to him as "my spouse" or "they"? Personally, I'd say that your workplace has an accepting culture where you don't need to be politically correct...
    - rmc 14y ago
      The workplace has to be PC, which means that other employees (and managers etc.) know that jokes about "the gay one" are unacceptable. It means that the company will have to be PC, so if they invite employee's partners to a work outing, they'd have to invite my husband. If they get a company perk (like health insurance, discount gym membership), they have to make sure that company isn't going to say "well Family Membership is only between 1 man and 1 woman".
      - tomp 14y ago