3 ms·

In German it is called "Bürger", yes. Burgher is some weird English spelling of the original french one, and I don't think it applies in any reasonable way to T

In German it is called "Bürger", yes. Burgher is some weird English spelling of the original french one, and I don't think it applies in any reasonable way to Thomas Mann. In German it really just means "Citizen".

rubberpoliceman 10mo ago
> In German it really just means "Citizen". It most definitely does not — it’s both “citoyen” and “bourgeois”.
- auggierose 10mo ago
  Thomas Mann was German, so he most definitely was not a "burgher", he was just a "Bürger". And the German "Bürger" is just "citizen" in English.
  - rubberpoliceman 10mo ago
    This isn’t hard to understand. “Burgher” is a perfectly legitimate translation of “Bürger” as in “bürgerlicher Mittagstisch”, “Der Bürger duldet nichts Unverständliches im Haus”. “Citizen” is a perfectly legitimate translation of “Bürger” when it comes to “Bürgeramt” or “Weltbürger”.
    - auggierose 10mo ago
      Well, Bürger means citizen, and bürgerlich means middle-class. Indeed, not hard to understand.
      - rubberpoliceman 10mo ago
        Excellent. Now do “bürgerliches Gesetzbuch”.
        eru 10mo ago
        The trolling of auggierose aside, whatever the bürgerliches Gesetzbuch might literally translate to, it is a triumph of the burghers, the bourgeoisie.
        auggierose 10mo ago
        Law that applies only to the middle-class. Duh.
        lukan 10mo ago
        But you do know it applies to everyone in germany?
        Towaway69 10mo ago
        Cynicism is punishment looking for a crime.
      - eru 10mo ago
        Please tell me you are trolling? https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/B%C3%BCrger https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/B%C3%BCrger says: Bedeutungen: [1a] Einwohner einer Gemeinde [1b] Angehöriger eines Staates [2] Angehöriger der Mittelschicht, des Bürgertums
  - ffuxlpff 10mo ago
    It meant an upper middle class urban citizen, while "Kleinbürger" was their lower middle class counterpart. Buddenbrooks was all about Bürgers, their history and lifestyle. Mann was a member of that class or even of its upper crust, the patricians.
  - eru 10mo ago
    Did you know that some words have multiple meanings? See eg https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gro%C3%9Fb%C3%BCrger https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gro%C3%9Fb%C3%BCrger or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Burgher https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Burgher or https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleinb%C3%BCrger https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleinb%C3%BCrger

rubberpoliceman 10mo ago

> In German it really just means "Citizen". It most definitely does not — it’s both “citoyen” and “bourgeois”.

auggierose 10mo ago
Thomas Mann was German, so he most definitely was not a "burgher", he was just a "Bürger". And the German "Bürger" is just "citizen" in English.
- rubberpoliceman 10mo ago
  This isn’t hard to understand. “Burgher” is a perfectly legitimate translation of “Bürger” as in “bürgerlicher Mittagstisch”, “Der Bürger duldet nichts Unverständliches im Haus”. “Citizen” is a perfectly legitimate translation of “Bürger” when it comes to “Bürgeramt” or “Weltbürger”.
  - auggierose 10mo ago
    Well, Bürger means citizen, and bürgerlich means middle-class. Indeed, not hard to understand.
    - rubberpoliceman 10mo ago
      Excellent. Now do “bürgerliches Gesetzbuch”.
      - eru 10mo ago
        The trolling of auggierose aside, whatever the bürgerliches Gesetzbuch might literally translate to, it is a triumph of the burghers, the bourgeoisie.
      - auggierose 10mo ago
        Law that applies only to the middle-class. Duh.
        lukan 10mo ago
        But you do know it applies to everyone in germany?
        Towaway69 10mo ago
        Cynicism is punishment looking for a crime.
    - eru 10mo ago
      Please tell me you are trolling? https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/B%C3%BCrger https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/B%C3%BCrger says: Bedeutungen: [1a] Einwohner einer Gemeinde [1b] Angehöriger eines Staates [2] Angehöriger der Mittelschicht, des Bürgertums
- ffuxlpff 10mo ago
  It meant an upper middle class urban citizen, while "Kleinbürger" was their lower middle class counterpart. Buddenbrooks was all about Bürgers, their history and lifestyle. Mann was a member of that class or even of its upper crust, the patricians.
- eru 10mo ago
  Did you know that some words have multiple meanings? See eg https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gro%C3%9Fb%C3%BCrger https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gro%C3%9Fb%C3%BCrger or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Burgher https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Burgher or https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleinb%C3%BCrger https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleinb%C3%BCrger