4 ms·

Well, hope and faith are not effective strategies. Good luck to those who operate from this perspective, they will face disappointment, which is theirs to own.

Well, hope and faith are not effective strategies. Good luck to those who operate from this perspective, they will face disappointment, which is theirs to own. Monogamous marriage is a shrinking minority of potential outcomes [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6], and ~40% of first marriages end in divorce [7] (rates are higher for second and third marriages). The kids of these people get a chance to do better when they become adults, and that's all we can hope for: that they make better choices than their parents. Better luck next generation I suppose. [1] How has marriage in the US changed over time? - https://usafacts.org/articles/state-relationships-marriages-and-living-alone-us/ https://usafacts.org/articles/state-relationships-marriages-... - February 11th, 2025 ("In 2024, US adults were less likely to be married than at almost any point since the Census Bureau began tracking marital status in 1940. The percentage of households with a married couple peaked 75 years ago: in 1949, it was 78.8%. That percentage has been below 50.0% since 2010, when the rate was 49.7%. In other words, less than half of American households have included a married couple for over a decade.") [2] Charted: How American Households Have Changed Over Time (1960-2023) - https://www.visualcapitalist.com/how-american-households-have-changed-over-time/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/how-american-households-hav... - November 6th, 2024 ("More Americans today are delaying or forgoing marriage altogether, with just 20% of women and 23% of men aged 25 being married—the lowest on record. Projections indicate that by 2050, one-third of Americans aged 45 may remain unmarried.") [3] Morgan Stanley: Rise of the SHEconomy - https://www.morganstanley.com/ideas/womens-impact-on-the-economy https://www.morganstanley.com/ideas/womens-impact-on-the-eco... - September 23rd, 2019 ("Based on Census Bureau historical data and Morgan Stanley forecasts, 45% of prime working age women (ages 25-44) will be single by 2030—the largest share in history—up from 41% in 2018.") [4] Pew Research: Share of U.S. adults living without a romantic partner has ticked down in recent years - https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/01/08/share-of-us-adults-living-without-a-romantic-partner-has-ticked-down-in-recent-years/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/01/08/share-of-... - January 8th, 2025 [5] Pew Research: A record-high share of 40-year-olds in the U.S. have never been married - https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/06/28/a-record-high-share-of-40-year-olds-in-the-us-have-never-been-married/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/06/28/a-record-... - June 28th, 2023 [6] Institute for Family Studies: 1-in-3: A Record Share of Young Adults Will Never Marry - https://ifstudies.org/blog/1-in-3-a-record-share-of-young-adults-will-never-marry https://ifstudies.org/blog/1-in-3-a-record-share-of-young-ad... - February 26th, 2024 [7] Pew Research: 8 facts about divorce in the United States - https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/10/16/8-facts-about-divorce-in-the-united-states/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/10/16/8-facts-a... - October 16th, 2025

apparent 11mo ago
> Well, hope and faith are not effective strategies. Good luck to those who operate from this perspective, they will face disappointment, which is theirs to own. Hm, worked great for many people I know. I can imagine it would depend on a number of factors. But looking at your links, they don't seem especially relevant to the question of whether more people are having sex before marriage than before. They don't even mention the word "sex" in fact. And of course, the relevant question isn't whether people in general are having sex before marriage less, it's whether people raised in families where abstention is valued are upholding that value in their lives. But congrats on sharing lots of links, which makes it look like evidence is on your side! As to whether "hope and faith are not effective strategies", it probably makes sense to listen to the experience of people who rely on such hope and faith in their lives, and who have many friends/family who do. People who express outward disdain for such things are probably not the best source of reliable info on the matter.
- toomuchtodo 11mo ago
  I understand that religiosity (faith and hope) is negatively correlated to intelligence, so I also understand faith driven mental models are an uphill climb to better health outcomes at scale. "It is what it is." As I mentioned, perhaps we'll have better luck next generation, when systems have improved in this regard. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23921675/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23921675/ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0160289617301848 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01602... https://hilo.hawaii.edu/campuscenter/hohonu/volumes/documents/TheRelationshipofReligiosityAtheismBeliefandIntelligenceKristyLungo.pdf https://hilo.hawaii.edu/campuscenter/hohonu/volumes/document... https://arxiv.org/abs/2011.12425 https://arxiv.org/abs/2011.12425 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34449007/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34449007/ (edit: facts and data are not unkind, they just are, and I feel like I have been very polite in my delivery of all facts and data presented; if you are unhappy about the facts and data presented, that is an internal issue to reconcile)
  - apparent 11mo ago

apparent 11mo ago

> Well, hope and faith are not effective strategies. Good luck to those who operate from this perspective, they will face disappointment, which is theirs to own. Hm, worked great for many people I know. I can imagine it would depend on a number of factors. But looking at your links, they don't seem especially relevant to the question of whether more people are having sex before marriage than before. They don't even mention the word "sex" in fact. And of course, the relevant question isn't whether people in general are having sex before marriage less, it's whether people raised in families where abstention is valued are upholding that value in their lives. But congrats on sharing lots of links, which makes it look like evidence is on your side! As to whether "hope and faith are not effective strategies", it probably makes sense to listen to the experience of people who rely on such hope and faith in their lives, and who have many friends/family who do. People who express outward disdain for such things are probably not the best source of reliable info on the matter.

toomuchtodo 11mo ago
I understand that religiosity (faith and hope) is negatively correlated to intelligence, so I also understand faith driven mental models are an uphill climb to better health outcomes at scale. "It is what it is." As I mentioned, perhaps we'll have better luck next generation, when systems have improved in this regard. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23921675/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23921675/ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0160289617301848 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01602... https://hilo.hawaii.edu/campuscenter/hohonu/volumes/documents/TheRelationshipofReligiosityAtheismBeliefandIntelligenceKristyLungo.pdf https://hilo.hawaii.edu/campuscenter/hohonu/volumes/document... https://arxiv.org/abs/2011.12425 https://arxiv.org/abs/2011.12425 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34449007/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34449007/ (edit: facts and data are not unkind, they just are, and I feel like I have been very polite in my delivery of all facts and data presented; if you are unhappy about the facts and data presented, that is an internal issue to reconcile)
- apparent 11mo ago