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> there is no invasion. Just a special ops kidnapping When one nation’s military illegally enters another nation’s sovereign territory to carry out military ac
by dpark 10mo ago
> there is no invasion. Just a special ops kidnapping
When one nation’s military illegally enters another nation’s sovereign territory to carry out military actions, that’s usually called an invasion.
- somewhereoutth 10mo agoNot really - an invasion implies holding ground, which isn't the case here.
- dpark 10mo agoAh, the time-honored tradition on the Internet of making up one’s own definition and confidently asserting that everyone who disagrees is wrong. Of course everyone knows it’s trivial for police to apprehend home invaders because invasion implies that they stay after they break in.
- ethbr1 10mo agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion >> In geopolitics, an invasion typically refers to a military offensive in which a polity sends combatants, usually in large numbers, to forcefully enter the territory of another polity,[1] with either side possibly being supported by one or more allies. While strategic goals for an invasion can be numerous and complex in nature, the foremost tactical objective normally involves militarily occupying part or all of the invaded polity's territory. Today, if a polity conducts an invasion without having been attacked by their opponent beforehand, it is widely considered to constitute an international crime and condemned as an act of aggression.
- dpark 10mo agoThat definition includes what happened here. Drop all the optional conditions (“usually large numbers”, “possibly being supported”) and the core statement becomes: “an invasion typically refers to a military offensive in which a polity sends combatants to forcefully enter the territory of another polity”
- ethbr1 10mo agoCan you at least appreciate the irony of someone using their own definition that disagrees with yours, you arguing against their using their own definition, and then there being another widely-cited definition that disagrees with your own, which you also argue against?
- dpark 10mo agoI’m not arguing against the Wikipedia definition because it does not disagree with mine. It says “usually in large numbers”, aka not necessarily large numbers. It says goals are complex but “normally involves militarily occupying”, aka not necessarily occupying.
- ethbr1 10mo agoIf you have to spend that many words explaining how it doesn't disagree with you, it disagrees with you.
- dpark 10mo agoYou chose a definition that is not concise and then selectively misread it. I don’t know how to politely say that your misreading is why I needed so many words.
- ethbr1 10mo ago"Selectively misread" it? What are we calling having to deemphasize key components then? "Discriminately highlighting"?
- johnnyanmac 10mo agoYou'd make an awful lawyer with that mentality. Anyways, Trump removed all ambiguiti today saying the US is gonna run Venezuela. It invaded and took over.
- somewhereoutth 10mo agoProbably we can distinguish between military invasion, and the use (arguably miss use) of the word colloquially in the US for home intruders. Per the Cambridge Dictionary: "an occasion when an army or country uses force to enter and take control of another country" In our case no 'taking control' has occurred, so this is not an invasion.
- jacquesm 10mo agoI'm sure that whoever follows up Maduro will be completely confident in the fact that they will be able to set policy free of foreign influence.
- somewhereoutth 10mo agoWell, absent further interventions - possibly even a real invasion! - there is no reason for the current regime in Venezuela to change its policy very much (aside from beefing up its air defense maybe)
- jacquesm 10mo agoThey've already been threatened to play ball: "While it is conceivable that Rodríguez has agreed to co-operate with the Trump administration to save her own skin – Trump said the US was prepared carry out a second wave of strikes if necessary – she will not be seen as someone willing to implement change."
- dpark 10mo ago“We are going to run the country” - Trump Clearly the US administration believes they have taken control.
- chasil 10mo agoThis is also the man who said that he could solve all of the problems in Ukraine in a one hour phone call. We cannot discount an assertion that this administration is expressing faith based upon falsehoods, as they have done before.
- Hikikomori 10mo agoTrump just said US will run Venezuela.
- jacquesm 10mo ago"or else"...
- chasil 10mo agoI would not agree. Intelligence operatives are often in place for long durations in hostile sovereign territory, and some were likely used in this event. Their presence is not an invasion. Air operations also are not seen as invasions, and the recent stealth strikes by the U.S. in Iran are not seen this way. It appears to me that armed troops in place that are taking and holding territory for a prolonged duration are the definition. The dictionary definition below is "the incursion of an army for conquest or plunder." https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/invasion https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/invasion Is Maduro and his wife "plunder?" That would stretch this meaning, I think.
- dpark 10mo ago> Is Maduro and his wife "plunder?" That would stretch this meaning, I think. Sure. But “We are going to run the country” sounds an awful lot like “conquest”.
- chasil 10mo agoWhen a standing army is involved, then we will all agree that it is an invasion. If it comes by financial aid to the elected president and oil deals to rehabilitate PDVSA, then it is not.
- dpark 10mo agoOkay but you chose to point to the Mirriam-Webster definition that doesn’t say anything about a standing army or holding territory. "the incursion of an army for conquest or plunder." We sent in an army for conquest but now you don’t like that definition anymore.
- chasil 10mo agoWhat exactly was the object of conquest? "something conquered, especially : territory appropriated in war" https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conquest https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conquest Is this Maduro and his wife? The object of conquest remains to be seen, and if a standing army is used to achieve it.