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One could easily ask the same question about the US. With congress having abdicated it raises the legitimate question of exactly what the US is now.

by bborud 9mo ago

stickfigure 9mo ago
That is rubbish. I loathe Trump more than most, but there's no serious claim that he wasn't freely elected in 2024. There appears to be a lot of buyer's remorse and we'll see what happens in the mid terms. But (sadly) Americans asked for this and they got it.
- pstuart 9mo ago
  [flagged]
  - jacquesm 9mo ago
    Gerrymandering alone would be enough to disqualify the US elections as 'free and fair' by many standards. And that's before we get into dollars are votes and other little details.
    - pstuart 9mo ago
      Indeed. There's plenty of other forms of disenfranchisement (restricted polling access, overly aggressive purging of voter rolls, etc) It's a pity that this is perceived as such a hot-button partisan topic, because that's not my intent -- I just want to see free and fair elections. The more distressing fact is that despite my assertion of election fuckery, there's clearly a large number of people that are willing to vote against their best interests because they are so easily swayed by anger and hate. Democracy really is the worst form of government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.
    - inquirerGeneral 9mo ago
      That has nothing to do with Trump and that election
    - stickfigure 9mo ago
      Gerrymandering is atrocious and anti-democratic but it didn't affect Trump's election. States' electors are winner-take-all[1] based on statewide popular vote so district boundaries don't factor in. [1] I just learned there are two exceptions, Maine and Nebraska. But they have few electors (9 total between them) so this was not significant in the 2024 election.
      - pstuart 9mo ago
        But it does affect congressional elections, and despite the effective neutering of the congress, having a majority there is crucial for maintaining power.
      - myko 9mo ago
        It does depress turnout
- locknitpicker 9mo ago
  > That is rubbish. I loathe Trump more than most, but there's no serious claim that he wasn't freely elected in 2024. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_efforts_to_disrupt_the_2024_United_States_presidential_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_efforts_to_di...
- chasil 9mo ago
  I would not say that we asked for it. The opposition refused to address internal issues with the incumbent until they were painfully evident, then switched in a much weaker candidate in the final months who had never won a primary. Had a stronger candidate been offered from the beginning, Trump well could have lost.
  - XorNot 9mo ago
    Really doesn't matter. America had two choices and made the one it did. It's clear what the country is, and is not.
- comfysocks 9mo ago
  In a way, America didn’t ask for what it got. America voted for a guy who claimed to have never heard of Project 2025. It got Project 2025. Also, Trump ran on a populist message. Yet if you look at what he has done materially since he got into office, it seems his true allegiance is with the billionaire elite.
pelorat 9mo ago
Among my European friends, no one considers the USA to be a legitimate democracy any more. The USA has for us devolved into a bandit state.
- woodpanel 9mo ago
  [flagged]
- ocdtrekkie 9mo ago
  Hi, here in America we also know this is true. :) Just riding it out til the regime of crazy falls over. When it happens, there will be much rejoicing.
- iknowstuff 9mo ago
  I certainly see the vitriol against the US on r/europe which seems like it has more news about the United States than Europe. Can’t help but think it’s orchestrated by Russian bots. You do realize the current government won the elections and the president won the popular vote right
  - bborud 9mo ago
    Elected heads of state have moved towards totalitarian rule before. Besides, elections isn’t what defines a functioning democracy. Why do so many people fail to pay attention in history and civics class? And why do people get so upset when their ignorance is pointed out to them. «He was elected» is not a justification. If it were then the rest of the world would take a dim view of Americans. Be glad that hasn’t become worse.
    - singpolyma3 9mo ago
      > If it were then the rest of the world would take a dim view of Americans. I have news for you...
      - bborud 9mo ago
ethbr1 9mo ago
> With congress having abdicated Historically in the American Republic, this has been true more often than not. There's a reason something taking "an act of Congress" is not a new expression for difficulty.
- ratamacue 9mo ago
  "Act of Congress" has always implied "something that is hard", but it has also implied "something that is fairly definitive". Today, congress can be largely ignored by the executive and congress seems to support it vocally. Is this also something that has been true more often than not in the American Republic?
  - ethbr1 9mo ago
    > Today, congress can be largely ignored by the executive and congress seems to support it vocally. I seem to remember the 116th and 118th Congresses pushing back against executive power, which were the last times the US had divided government. https://history.house.gov/Institution/Presidents-Coinciding/Party-Government/ https://history.house.gov/Institution/Presidents-Coinciding/... And I wouldn't exactly say that Congress is wholly supporting unrestricted presidential power currently either. E.g. Senator Thune continually shooting down Trump's more oddball pleas. There are very vocal supporters of the president in both the House and Senate GOP caucuses, but they're not the majority. I think the strongest version of your argument would be something like 'In recent US Congressional history, both parties when in power have used congressional power to tactically check opposition party presidents, but neither have sought to permanently expand and defend the bounds of congressional power.'
    - bborud 9mo ago
      Wouldn’t a functioning congress have resisted the executive aborbing its powers? After all, congress was supposed to be the most powerful branch. For good reason.
      - dmitrygr 9mo ago

One could easily ask the same question about the US. With congress having abdicated it raises the legitimate question of exactly what the US is now.

by bborud 9mo ago

One could easily ask the same question about the US. With congress having abdicated it raises the legitimate question of exactly what the US is now.

stickfigure 9mo ago

That is rubbish. I loathe Trump more than most, but there's no serious claim that he wasn't freely elected in 2024. There appears to be a lot of buyer's remorse and we'll see what happens in the mid terms. But (sadly) Americans asked for this and they got it.

pstuart 9mo ago
[flagged]
- jacquesm 9mo ago
  Gerrymandering alone would be enough to disqualify the US elections as 'free and fair' by many standards. And that's before we get into dollars are votes and other little details.
  - pstuart 9mo ago
    Indeed. There's plenty of other forms of disenfranchisement (restricted polling access, overly aggressive purging of voter rolls, etc) It's a pity that this is perceived as such a hot-button partisan topic, because that's not my intent -- I just want to see free and fair elections. The more distressing fact is that despite my assertion of election fuckery, there's clearly a large number of people that are willing to vote against their best interests because they are so easily swayed by anger and hate. Democracy really is the worst form of government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.
  - inquirerGeneral 9mo ago
    That has nothing to do with Trump and that election
  - stickfigure 9mo ago
    Gerrymandering is atrocious and anti-democratic but it didn't affect Trump's election. States' electors are winner-take-all[1] based on statewide popular vote so district boundaries don't factor in. [1] I just learned there are two exceptions, Maine and Nebraska. But they have few electors (9 total between them) so this was not significant in the 2024 election.
    - pstuart 9mo ago
      But it does affect congressional elections, and despite the effective neutering of the congress, having a majority there is crucial for maintaining power.
    - myko 9mo ago
      It does depress turnout
locknitpicker 9mo ago
> That is rubbish. I loathe Trump more than most, but there's no serious claim that he wasn't freely elected in 2024. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_efforts_to_disrupt_the_2024_United_States_presidential_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_efforts_to_di...
chasil 9mo ago
I would not say that we asked for it. The opposition refused to address internal issues with the incumbent until they were painfully evident, then switched in a much weaker candidate in the final months who had never won a primary. Had a stronger candidate been offered from the beginning, Trump well could have lost.
- XorNot 9mo ago
  Really doesn't matter. America had two choices and made the one it did. It's clear what the country is, and is not.
comfysocks 9mo ago
In a way, America didn’t ask for what it got. America voted for a guy who claimed to have never heard of Project 2025. It got Project 2025. Also, Trump ran on a populist message. Yet if you look at what he has done materially since he got into office, it seems his true allegiance is with the billionaire elite.

pelorat 9mo ago

Among my European friends, no one considers the USA to be a legitimate democracy any more. The USA has for us devolved into a bandit state.

woodpanel 9mo ago
[flagged]
ocdtrekkie 9mo ago
Hi, here in America we also know this is true. :) Just riding it out til the regime of crazy falls over. When it happens, there will be much rejoicing.
iknowstuff 9mo ago
I certainly see the vitriol against the US on r/europe which seems like it has more news about the United States than Europe. Can’t help but think it’s orchestrated by Russian bots. You do realize the current government won the elections and the president won the popular vote right
- bborud 9mo ago
  Elected heads of state have moved towards totalitarian rule before. Besides, elections isn’t what defines a functioning democracy. Why do so many people fail to pay attention in history and civics class? And why do people get so upset when their ignorance is pointed out to them. «He was elected» is not a justification. If it were then the rest of the world would take a dim view of Americans. Be glad that hasn’t become worse.
  - singpolyma3 9mo ago
    > If it were then the rest of the world would take a dim view of Americans. I have news for you...
    - bborud 9mo ago

ethbr1 9mo ago

> With congress having abdicated Historically in the American Republic, this has been true more often than not. There's a reason something taking "an act of Congress" is not a new expression for difficulty.

ratamacue 9mo ago
"Act of Congress" has always implied "something that is hard", but it has also implied "something that is fairly definitive". Today, congress can be largely ignored by the executive and congress seems to support it vocally. Is this also something that has been true more often than not in the American Republic?
- ethbr1 9mo ago
  > Today, congress can be largely ignored by the executive and congress seems to support it vocally. I seem to remember the 116th and 118th Congresses pushing back against executive power, which were the last times the US had divided government. https://history.house.gov/Institution/Presidents-Coinciding/Party-Government/ https://history.house.gov/Institution/Presidents-Coinciding/... And I wouldn't exactly say that Congress is wholly supporting unrestricted presidential power currently either. E.g. Senator Thune continually shooting down Trump's more oddball pleas. There are very vocal supporters of the president in both the House and Senate GOP caucuses, but they're not the majority. I think the strongest version of your argument would be something like 'In recent US Congressional history, both parties when in power have used congressional power to tactically check opposition party presidents, but neither have sought to permanently expand and defend the bounds of congressional power.'
  - bborud 9mo ago
    Wouldn’t a functioning congress have resisted the executive aborbing its powers? After all, congress was supposed to be the most powerful branch. For good reason.
    - dmitrygr 9mo ago