4 ms·

What I find interresting and would like to see discussed more, is the psychology at play that makes us believe this is another "exception to the rule of interna

by rixed 9mo ago

What I find interresting and would like to see discussed more, is the psychology at play that makes us believe this is another "exception to the rule of international law". I wonder if one could generalize the terror management theory (TMT) to social obedience?

rixed 9mo ago
"Be the change yo want to see", I guess. So, my pet peeve theory is that "the rule of law" is not something the ruling class needs to cover their track; it's something the ruled class needs to cover their shame. Shame of being ruled, but also terror of being ultimately subjected to arbitrary power. For instance, I believe that in the feodal past lay people used to genuinely believe that kings got their authority from God; not because kings were good observants of the precepts of religion (they were not), but because that protects the self-esteem and helps hide the facts that their life was dependant of the whimsical violence of the princes. I find it surprisingly hard to try to convince myself that there is no such thing as "rule of law", that for instance the overthrown of a non-aligned regime could be just about the oil and competition with China, although I know that's how future historians will deal with that non-story; There is some surprising amount of resistance from within to this idea. It's interresting to do the experiment.
- aebtebeten 9mo ago
  Have you read Thucydides, "The Melian Dialogue"? Or Zweig, „Schachnovelle“?
  - rixed 9mo ago
    Zweig yes, but I can't remember it well enough to connect it to this story. Could you elaborate a bit just to give me a clue?
    - aebtebeten 9mo ago
      Part of Schachnovelle as I remember it is that Dr. B as Weltbürger is driven crazy by the dual facts that Czentovic is both a primitive brute and yet succeeds at chess via brute force, which perhaps is meant to be compared with his earlier imprisonment in 1938, by people who succeeded at politics not by subtlety but by brute force. The idea that cosmopolitan, educated, and cultivated people could be left like deer in the headlights by brutes setting themselves through by force reminded me of your description of TMT, or at least the ego-protective "helps hide the facts that their life was dependant of the whimsical violence of the princes" part of your explanation. Does this unpacking make any more sense? (meanwhile, the Melian Dialogue is the source of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46479662 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46479662 )
      - gsf_emergency_6 9mo ago
        The subtlety of Trump is a "self-stabilizing" meme? Brutality only to outsiders-- see how he handled Mamdani face to face. Like 2 lions ? https://youtube.com/shorts/dV8wsaaY0oQ https://youtube.com/shorts/dV8wsaaY0oQ I'm sceptical of directly "transpiling" lessons from history-- & in general I find that Austrians are full of it* (sorry! It does feel like they are on the elitist end of the populist-elitist divide) *Earnings Ps: >Be the change yo want to see It's Gandhi's saying that needs (more) elab :) I'll be that hypocrite and leave you to it E- 1974 Lorrance https://jenniferlphillips.com/blog/2021/2/24/origin-story-be-the-change https://jenniferlphillips.com/blog/2021/2/24/origin-story-be... >We but mirror the world >However, the passage was written in the explicit context of animal attacks.
        deleted 9mo ago
        [deleted]
        aebtebeten 9mo ago
        Yeah, I was thinking self-stabilizing while writing that, but generally try to avoid bringing in too many doorknobs with unknown interlocutors :) > Mamdani face to face. Like 2 lions ? As that old russophone meme went: the diner sits; the waiter stands? (can't find it right now, but along the lines of strategic ambiguity this is an amusing one: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FEZLJn8WYAQreU0?format=jpg&name=medium https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FEZLJn8WYAQreU0?format=jpg&name=... ) This is wonderful! Not only does Gandhiji speak on multiple levels, but unlike many who attempt it he carries the conceit through to perfection, offering valid first-aid advice to complete the surface reading. https://www.gandhiheritageportal.org/cwmg_volume_thumbview/M https://www.gandhiheritageportal.org/cwmg_volume_thumbview/M... (if one were only to read the first and last few pages, one would miss completely the change of tone in the middle; did EAB pick up this habit from the subcontinent?) Heh. I just noticed DJT literally used the words "extraordinary military operation" during his press conference; does VVP's «специальной» have vastly different connotations in ru from "extraordinary" in en? Unlikely to be intentional plagiarism, maybe just parallel evolution? History repeats But then again, it has to Nobody listens
abigail95 9mo ago
What international law is being broken here? And why does that law take precedence over the laws of Venezuela and USA?
- aebtebeten 9mo ago
  In principle, our diplomats have mentioned "respecting the prohibition on the use of force enshrined in international law and the territorial integrity of sovereign states" using those words as search terms yields: https://legal.un.org/repertory/art2/english/rep_supp7_vol1_art2_4.pdf https://legal.un.org/repertory/art2/english/rep_supp7_vol1_a... https://legal.un.org/repertory/art2.shtml https://legal.un.org/repertory/art2.shtml In practice, command responsibility is generally upheld against losing commanders: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superior_orders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superior_orders but an effective way to avoid being tried, at least in the short term, is to be a winning commander: https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Adams/06-02-02-0072-0007#:~:text=He%20that%20draws,away%20the%20scabbard https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Adams/06-02-02-0072-... (Alexander the Great, on his deathbed, was asked who would inherit his empire; whether because he was an early "realist" or because he was apathetic or simply narcissistic [or?], he replied: the strongest)
  - aebtebeten 9mo ago
    Apart from command responsibility, every combatant has a duty to disobey a manifestly unlawful order; note the restrictive adjective "lawful" in both https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2024-title10/html/USCODE-2024-title10-subtitleA-partII-chap47-subchapX-sec890.htm https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2024-title10/html... and https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2024-title10/html/USCODE-2024-title10-subtitleA-partII-chap47-subchapX-sec892.htm https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2024-title10/html... Furthermore, even before the purely legal aspects of UCMJ, there's the plain common sense of Adm. Holsley (Ret.): https://www.southcom.mil/MEDIA/NEWS-ARTICLES/Article/4359115/lt-gen-pettus-assumes-command-of-southcom-adm-holsey-retires/#:~:text=To%20be%20a,must%20be%20credible https://www.southcom.mil/MEDIA/NEWS-ARTICLES/Article/4359115... > "To be a trusted partner, [SOUTHCOM] must be credible..."
- 9mo ago

by rixed 9mo ago

rixed 9mo ago

"Be the change yo want to see", I guess. So, my pet peeve theory is that "the rule of law" is not something the ruling class needs to cover their track; it's something the ruled class needs to cover their shame. Shame of being ruled, but also terror of being ultimately subjected to arbitrary power. For instance, I believe that in the feodal past lay people used to genuinely believe that kings got their authority from God; not because kings were good observants of the precepts of religion (they were not), but because that protects the self-esteem and helps hide the facts that their life was dependant of the whimsical violence of the princes. I find it surprisingly hard to try to convince myself that there is no such thing as "rule of law", that for instance the overthrown of a non-aligned regime could be just about the oil and competition with China, although I know that's how future historians will deal with that non-story; There is some surprising amount of resistance from within to this idea. It's interresting to do the experiment.

aebtebeten 9mo ago
Have you read Thucydides, "The Melian Dialogue"? Or Zweig, „Schachnovelle“?
- rixed 9mo ago
  Zweig yes, but I can't remember it well enough to connect it to this story. Could you elaborate a bit just to give me a clue?
  - aebtebeten 9mo ago
    Part of Schachnovelle as I remember it is that Dr. B as Weltbürger is driven crazy by the dual facts that Czentovic is both a primitive brute and yet succeeds at chess via brute force, which perhaps is meant to be compared with his earlier imprisonment in 1938, by people who succeeded at politics not by subtlety but by brute force. The idea that cosmopolitan, educated, and cultivated people could be left like deer in the headlights by brutes setting themselves through by force reminded me of your description of TMT, or at least the ego-protective "helps hide the facts that their life was dependant of the whimsical violence of the princes" part of your explanation. Does this unpacking make any more sense? (meanwhile, the Melian Dialogue is the source of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46479662 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46479662 )
    - gsf_emergency_6 9mo ago
      The subtlety of Trump is a "self-stabilizing" meme? Brutality only to outsiders-- see how he handled Mamdani face to face. Like 2 lions ? https://youtube.com/shorts/dV8wsaaY0oQ https://youtube.com/shorts/dV8wsaaY0oQ I'm sceptical of directly "transpiling" lessons from history-- & in general I find that Austrians are full of it* (sorry! It does feel like they are on the elitist end of the populist-elitist divide) *Earnings Ps: >Be the change yo want to see It's Gandhi's saying that needs (more) elab :) I'll be that hypocrite and leave you to it E- 1974 Lorrance https://jenniferlphillips.com/blog/2021/2/24/origin-story-be-the-change https://jenniferlphillips.com/blog/2021/2/24/origin-story-be... >We but mirror the world >However, the passage was written in the explicit context of animal attacks.
      - deleted 9mo ago
        [deleted]
      - aebtebeten 9mo ago
        Yeah, I was thinking self-stabilizing while writing that, but generally try to avoid bringing in too many doorknobs with unknown interlocutors :) > Mamdani face to face. Like 2 lions ? As that old russophone meme went: the diner sits; the waiter stands? (can't find it right now, but along the lines of strategic ambiguity this is an amusing one: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FEZLJn8WYAQreU0?format=jpg&name=medium https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FEZLJn8WYAQreU0?format=jpg&name=... ) This is wonderful! Not only does Gandhiji speak on multiple levels, but unlike many who attempt it he carries the conceit through to perfection, offering valid first-aid advice to complete the surface reading. https://www.gandhiheritageportal.org/cwmg_volume_thumbview/M https://www.gandhiheritageportal.org/cwmg_volume_thumbview/M... (if one were only to read the first and last few pages, one would miss completely the change of tone in the middle; did EAB pick up this habit from the subcontinent?) Heh. I just noticed DJT literally used the words "extraordinary military operation" during his press conference; does VVP's «специальной» have vastly different connotations in ru from "extraordinary" in en? Unlikely to be intentional plagiarism, maybe just parallel evolution? History repeats But then again, it has to Nobody listens

abigail95 9mo ago

What international law is being broken here? And why does that law take precedence over the laws of Venezuela and USA?

aebtebeten 9mo ago
In principle, our diplomats have mentioned "respecting the prohibition on the use of force enshrined in international law and the territorial integrity of sovereign states" using those words as search terms yields: https://legal.un.org/repertory/art2/english/rep_supp7_vol1_art2_4.pdf https://legal.un.org/repertory/art2/english/rep_supp7_vol1_a... https://legal.un.org/repertory/art2.shtml https://legal.un.org/repertory/art2.shtml In practice, command responsibility is generally upheld against losing commanders: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superior_orders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superior_orders but an effective way to avoid being tried, at least in the short term, is to be a winning commander: https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Adams/06-02-02-0072-0007#:~:text=He%20that%20draws,away%20the%20scabbard https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Adams/06-02-02-0072-... (Alexander the Great, on his deathbed, was asked who would inherit his empire; whether because he was an early "realist" or because he was apathetic or simply narcissistic [or?], he replied: the strongest)
- aebtebeten 9mo ago
  Apart from command responsibility, every combatant has a duty to disobey a manifestly unlawful order; note the restrictive adjective "lawful" in both https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2024-title10/html/USCODE-2024-title10-subtitleA-partII-chap47-subchapX-sec890.htm https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2024-title10/html... and https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2024-title10/html/USCODE-2024-title10-subtitleA-partII-chap47-subchapX-sec892.htm https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2024-title10/html... Furthermore, even before the purely legal aspects of UCMJ, there's the plain common sense of Adm. Holsley (Ret.): https://www.southcom.mil/MEDIA/NEWS-ARTICLES/Article/4359115/lt-gen-pettus-assumes-command-of-southcom-adm-holsey-retires/#:~:text=To%20be%20a,must%20be%20credible https://www.southcom.mil/MEDIA/NEWS-ARTICLES/Article/4359115... > "To be a trusted partner, [SOUTHCOM] must be credible..."
9mo ago