4 ms·

"Rules-based international world order" consists of just two rules: 1. The Western countries (basically meaning USA makes the decision) may attack any country.

"Rules-based international world order" consists of just two rules: 1. The Western countries (basically meaning USA makes the decision) may attack any country. 2. Other countries may not defend themselves nor attack any country. Iraq, Iraq (several separate agressions on Iraq, that is not a typo), Afghanistan, Cuba, Serbia, Libya, Sirya, Venezuela... the list goes on, Venezuela is of no particular significance here.

majgr 9mo ago
> nor attack any country It is not like citizens of Iran decide to attack Israel or like sponsoring terrorist orgs attacking Israel. I am not sure if Russians freely vote in referendum to attack Ukraine. These decisions are made by despots ruling these countries and then their citizens suffer. Either they die in trenches or suffer economic misery. What for? China too can live without Taiwan. Chinese people do not need to have another island belonging to their country. Only despots wants to have statues raised after them, or write their names in history books, because all other things: Power, Money, Sex they already have.
- int_19h 9mo ago
  It's true that Russians didn't vote to attack Ukraine. Nevertheless, the invasion had broad popular support at the beginning.
  - gloosx 9mo ago
    >the invasion had broad popular support at the beginning. According to whom? You should understand that public opinion surveys in authoritarian countries are problematic. In autocracies, people might want to hide their opinions and give socially desirable answers that conform to the official government position for fear of facing repression or deviating from the consensus view.
    - int_19h 9mo ago
      According to my own relatives, friends, and acquaintances in Russia, where I'm from. You don't need to tell me about "hiding opinions". The majority support is regardless of all that, though.
      - gloosx 9mo ago
        This is a ridiculously small sample to tell me that "the invasion had broad popular support at the beginning". It had a broad support in your own circles and you casually extrapolated it to the whole population. According to my own relatives, friends, and acquaintances in Russia (where I'm from) – no one supports or ever supported in the beginning the total idiocracy which is happening.
- wiseowise 9mo ago
  > I am not sure if Russians freely vote in referendum to attack Ukraine They sure as hell didn't protest much when Russia occupied Crimea and started war in Eastern Ukraine.
gloosx 9mo ago
Whatever coutry has the most firepower you mean. Hungary, Chechoslovakia, Afghanistan, Angola, Ethiopia, Azerbaijan, Lithuania, Moldova, Georgia, Tajikistan, Ichkeria, Ukraine, Syria... The list goes on
- merpkz 9mo ago
  Lithuania?
  - gloosx 9mo ago
    Lithuania fought two distinct wars with Soviet Union, both conflicts involved USSR attempts to control the Baltic region and establish communist rule.
vladd 9mo ago
Where does Russia's attack of Ukraine fits within this?
- ivan_gammel 9mo ago
  According to West, not allowed. However, the West does not exist anymore, and we have two different ideological camps within it. According to USA, it’s bad, but it did not hurt American interests, so a good deal is possible. According to EU, foreign policy of which is hijacked by Baltic right, it is still not allowed, but… Deep currents indicate that as soon as it’s done with formal condemnations, it is desirable that business will resume as usual.
  - the-smug-one 9mo ago
    > Deep currents indicate that as soon as it’s done with formal condemnations, it is desirable that business will resume as usual. What deep currents are those? As a European situated close to Russia, I do not feel that this is the case.
    - ivan_gammel 9mo ago
      Plenty of European businesses still operate in Russia or have set up their exit for easy return via Dubai legal entities. Also Belgium fiercely resisting confiscation of Russian assets etc.
      - the-smug-one 9mo ago
        >Also Belgium fiercely resisting confiscation of Russian assets etc Isn't this literally them not wanting to be left holding the paper bag? What businesses are doing, I don't know, I am more aware of what states are doing. What're your thoughts on the expansion of military expenditure? Let Ukraine die, keep ourselves defended?
        ivan_gammel 9mo ago

majgr 9mo ago

> nor attack any country It is not like citizens of Iran decide to attack Israel or like sponsoring terrorist orgs attacking Israel. I am not sure if Russians freely vote in referendum to attack Ukraine. These decisions are made by despots ruling these countries and then their citizens suffer. Either they die in trenches or suffer economic misery. What for? China too can live without Taiwan. Chinese people do not need to have another island belonging to their country. Only despots wants to have statues raised after them, or write their names in history books, because all other things: Power, Money, Sex they already have.

int_19h 9mo ago
It's true that Russians didn't vote to attack Ukraine. Nevertheless, the invasion had broad popular support at the beginning.
- gloosx 9mo ago
  >the invasion had broad popular support at the beginning. According to whom? You should understand that public opinion surveys in authoritarian countries are problematic. In autocracies, people might want to hide their opinions and give socially desirable answers that conform to the official government position for fear of facing repression or deviating from the consensus view.
  - int_19h 9mo ago
    According to my own relatives, friends, and acquaintances in Russia, where I'm from. You don't need to tell me about "hiding opinions". The majority support is regardless of all that, though.
    - gloosx 9mo ago
      This is a ridiculously small sample to tell me that "the invasion had broad popular support at the beginning". It had a broad support in your own circles and you casually extrapolated it to the whole population. According to my own relatives, friends, and acquaintances in Russia (where I'm from) – no one supports or ever supported in the beginning the total idiocracy which is happening.
wiseowise 9mo ago
> I am not sure if Russians freely vote in referendum to attack Ukraine They sure as hell didn't protest much when Russia occupied Crimea and started war in Eastern Ukraine.

gloosx 9mo ago

Whatever coutry has the most firepower you mean. Hungary, Chechoslovakia, Afghanistan, Angola, Ethiopia, Azerbaijan, Lithuania, Moldova, Georgia, Tajikistan, Ichkeria, Ukraine, Syria... The list goes on

merpkz 9mo ago
Lithuania?
- gloosx 9mo ago
  Lithuania fought two distinct wars with Soviet Union, both conflicts involved USSR attempts to control the Baltic region and establish communist rule.

vladd 9mo ago

Where does Russia's attack of Ukraine fits within this?

ivan_gammel 9mo ago
According to West, not allowed. However, the West does not exist anymore, and we have two different ideological camps within it. According to USA, it’s bad, but it did not hurt American interests, so a good deal is possible. According to EU, foreign policy of which is hijacked by Baltic right, it is still not allowed, but… Deep currents indicate that as soon as it’s done with formal condemnations, it is desirable that business will resume as usual.
- the-smug-one 9mo ago
  > Deep currents indicate that as soon as it’s done with formal condemnations, it is desirable that business will resume as usual. What deep currents are those? As a European situated close to Russia, I do not feel that this is the case.
  - ivan_gammel 9mo ago
    Plenty of European businesses still operate in Russia or have set up their exit for easy return via Dubai legal entities. Also Belgium fiercely resisting confiscation of Russian assets etc.
    - the-smug-one 9mo ago
      >Also Belgium fiercely resisting confiscation of Russian assets etc Isn't this literally them not wanting to be left holding the paper bag? What businesses are doing, I don't know, I am more aware of what states are doing. What're your thoughts on the expansion of military expenditure? Let Ukraine die, keep ourselves defended?
      - ivan_gammel 9mo ago