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I think the reason they keep trying new UI frameworks is that no one really adopts them. Developers know that Microsoft won’t kill off backward compatibility an

I think the reason they keep trying new UI frameworks is that no one really adopts them. Developers know that Microsoft won’t kill off backward compatibility and break all the enterprise apps, so why rewrite? When one framework fails, they start working on the next one. I question if they understand the corner they’ve painted themselves into.

blibble 10mo ago
I stopped writing Windows applications back in the early 00s my Windows API knowledge (essentially: just Win32) is still exactly as useful as it was then, having missed the 7 or 8 different UI frameworks in the interim
- stevekemp 10mo ago
  Me too, back then I wrote applications either using the raw Win32 API (GetMessage, TranslateMessage, DispatchMessage, etc), or using MFC. I think MFC is now long-time dead and buried, but at the time I liked it despite the ugly macros.
  - cyberax 10mo ago
    MFC is actually still supported by MS, works in the most recent MSVS, and even occasionally receives updates.
- pjmlp 10mo ago
  Win32 is basically frozen on Windows XP. Since Vista most newer APIs are done in COM, or WinRT nowadays.
  - trinix912 10mo ago
    I remember a thin book describing changes to the API in Vista and 7 compared to XP and it was really thin. Just a few extra APIs to be able to show controls in the taskbar preview and things like that. Win32 is a stable API and I hope they don't let anyone from the Windows 11 modernization team touch it.
    - pjmlp 10mo ago
      Except for anything that came after XP, you need to at least make use of COM. WinRT can be avoided if you don't do any modern stuff like the new context menu, WinUI, or Windows ML.
      - ptx 10mo ago
        And those new APIs (at least the context menu API) apparently require a "package identity", which requires a signed MSIX installer, which requires paying for a code-signing certificate, unless I'm missing something in the docs.
        pjmlp 10mo ago
        That is because of what people claiming UWP is dead, haven't gotten the whole picture. UWP as separate subsystem, yes it is deprecated, and no one should be using it, although Microsoft was forced to introduce .NET 9 support on UWP, because many refuse to move away from UWP into WinUI 3.0, given the lack of feature parity. Now, when WinRT was made to also work on Win32 side, it also brought with it the concept of package identity, which forms a part of the whole app isolation from UWP similar to Android, now on Win32 as well, hence the MSIX. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/secauthz/app-isolation-overview https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/secauthz/app... On the specific case of the context menu, it depends on what is being done, https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2021/07/19/extending-the-context-menu-and-share-dialog-in-windows-11/ https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2021/07/19/extend... You can work around app identity when using the suggested alternative of unpackaged Win32 apps with sparse manifests.
    - tonyedgecombe 10mo ago
      >Win32 is a stable API and I hope they don't let anyone from the Windows 11 modernization team touch it. I've heard a Microsoft executive talk about win32 as legacy that they want to replace. I don't think that's realistic though, it's probably the last piece of technology keeping people on the platform.

blibble 10mo ago

I stopped writing Windows applications back in the early 00s my Windows API knowledge (essentially: just Win32) is still exactly as useful as it was then, having missed the 7 or 8 different UI frameworks in the interim

stevekemp 10mo ago
Me too, back then I wrote applications either using the raw Win32 API (GetMessage, TranslateMessage, DispatchMessage, etc), or using MFC. I think MFC is now long-time dead and buried, but at the time I liked it despite the ugly macros.
- cyberax 10mo ago
  MFC is actually still supported by MS, works in the most recent MSVS, and even occasionally receives updates.
pjmlp 10mo ago
Win32 is basically frozen on Windows XP. Since Vista most newer APIs are done in COM, or WinRT nowadays.
- trinix912 10mo ago
  I remember a thin book describing changes to the API in Vista and 7 compared to XP and it was really thin. Just a few extra APIs to be able to show controls in the taskbar preview and things like that. Win32 is a stable API and I hope they don't let anyone from the Windows 11 modernization team touch it.
  - pjmlp 10mo ago
    Except for anything that came after XP, you need to at least make use of COM. WinRT can be avoided if you don't do any modern stuff like the new context menu, WinUI, or Windows ML.
    - ptx 10mo ago
      And those new APIs (at least the context menu API) apparently require a "package identity", which requires a signed MSIX installer, which requires paying for a code-signing certificate, unless I'm missing something in the docs.
      - pjmlp 10mo ago
        That is because of what people claiming UWP is dead, haven't gotten the whole picture. UWP as separate subsystem, yes it is deprecated, and no one should be using it, although Microsoft was forced to introduce .NET 9 support on UWP, because many refuse to move away from UWP into WinUI 3.0, given the lack of feature parity. Now, when WinRT was made to also work on Win32 side, it also brought with it the concept of package identity, which forms a part of the whole app isolation from UWP similar to Android, now on Win32 as well, hence the MSIX. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/secauthz/app-isolation-overview https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/secauthz/app... On the specific case of the context menu, it depends on what is being done, https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2021/07/19/extending-the-context-menu-and-share-dialog-in-windows-11/ https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2021/07/19/extend... You can work around app identity when using the suggested alternative of unpackaged Win32 apps with sparse manifests.
  - tonyedgecombe 10mo ago
    >Win32 is a stable API and I hope they don't let anyone from the Windows 11 modernization team touch it. I've heard a Microsoft executive talk about win32 as legacy that they want to replace. I don't think that's realistic though, it's probably the last piece of technology keeping people on the platform.