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If true, this has an interesting implication - if our parent universe bothers to do it, it probably means they get useful information from it. That means that t
by geoffschmidt 14y ago
If true, this has an interesting implication - if our parent universe bothers to do it, it probably means they get useful information from it. That means that the recursion eventually terminates, that eventually in some great great grandchild universe they are able to produce the seed of the answer to whatever the original question was, rather than start another simulation.
- anateus 14y agoMy intuition is that the recursion shouldn't hurt getting useful results, even if the simulation was allowed to proceed past the point where such a simulation was developed (which they may not have), in a manner akin to the resolution of Zeno's Paradox. Though there's likely a bound on how many layers deep we can go, but my quantum information theory isn't what it used to be so I have to hand wave my conjectures.
- philh 14y ago> Though there's likely a bound on how many layers deep we can go Yes. The universe only has so much computing power, and any universe we simulate will have less.
- pirateking 14y agoDoes this depend on the universe having a finite amount of mass or what?
- xyzzyz 14y agohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bekenstein_bound http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bekenstein_bound
- pirateking 14y agoThanks. Any recommended books for a soft introduction to these concepts?
- anateus 14y agoProgramming the Universe by Seth Lloyd (physics professor at MIT who likes to call himself a "quantum mechanic"). Here's a relevant paper by Lloyd titled "Ultimate physical limits to computation": http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/9908043v3 http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/9908043v3
- wladimir 14y agoThat would apply to real-time simulations. But wouldn't every layer run successively slower? The inhabitants wouldn't notice how fast their simulation is running in the (grand)parent universe. So given infinite time the layering could be infinitely deep.
- mikeash 14y agoIf the recursion spawns an average of more than one child universe per parent universe, then it would spawn an infinite number of universes, and maybe this is still the first run which, to the disappointment of our unknown benefactors, will produce no useful information.
- lukifer 14y agoIt could also simply be monitored for CPU usage, and have the process auto-terminate when spiked by recursive children. Creating our own Virtual Earth might then destroy the universe. :P Another disturbing thought: if our universe were spun up or down like we do virtual machines, would we even notice?
- orangecat 14y agoif our universe were spun up or down like we do virtual machines, would we even notice? I would guess not. See Permutation City by Greg Egan for lots of speculation about questions like that.
- notintokyo 14y agoI imagined I had given some thought to these subjects, but Permutation City did have new ideas. If you slow down a simulation to some ridiculous degree, the simulated beings don't notice. Even if you run the simulation backwards or in random order, they wouldn't notice. If you abruptly shut it down, they'll just continue finding the pattern somewhere.