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Would you be able provide some evidence to the contrary when it comes to the topics discussed in the letter? On industrial infrastructure On technology innova

Would you be able provide some evidence to the contrary when it comes to the topics discussed in the letter? On industrial infrastructure On technology innovation On internet regulation On central planning Otherwise, your comment becomes an anecdote supporting the common stereotypes (assuming you’re from Europe).

keiferski 9mo ago
I’m responding to comments like this in the article: So I am betting that the US and China are more compelling forces for change. Stalin was fond of telling a story from his experience in Leipzig in 1907, when, to his astonishment, 200 German workers failed to turn up to a socialist meeting because no ticket controller was on the platform to punch their train tickets, citing this experience as proof of the hopelessness of Germanic obedience. Could anyone imagine Chinese or Americans being so obedient? This isn’t a serious analysis of German culture. It’s perfectly fine to argue that certain countries are economically or industrially problematic, but when you throw in comments like this, it really doesn’t help your argument. And I’m not from Europe, but I have lived here for years. The constant clueless comments by my fellow North Americans about the somehow monolithic entity of “Europe” are irritating.
- snake_doc 9mo ago
  [flagged]
  - UncleMeat 9mo ago
    This is sealioning.
    - stephen_cagle 9mo ago
      I had never heard of this term and I thought about it for a good 30 seconds before looking it up (my best guess was it had something to do with the sea lion's "owrk" "owrk" noise when it asks for a fish at water parks). :] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning
- enraged_camel 9mo ago
  >> This isn’t a serious analysis of German culture. Who said it’s meant to be a serious analysis? This is an essay that shares anecdotes and personal opinions, not a PhD dissertation.
  - vouwfietsman 9mo ago
    This is not really fair, the story is never explicitly discounted as hyperbole in the article and follows a range of other more mellow criticisms of europe. Also, directly following this quote, is the question: "Could anyone imagine Chinese or Americans being so obedient?". None of this points to the story being out of place, and since the author specializes in serious analysis of china's relation with america, and the author brings up europe, its fair to assume that they included this story as a relevant criticism of europe. In that regard, its indeed not of the same quality as the analyses of china or american culture.
throwaway132448 9mo ago
I mean, you only have to quote the letter itself: "I have a hard time squaring the poor prospects of Europe over the next decade with the smugness that Europeans have for themselves. I spent most of the summer in Copenhagen. There’s no doubt that quality of life in most European cities is superb, especially for what I care about: food, opera, walkable streets, access to nature. But a decade of low economic growth is biting. European prices and taxes can be so high while salaries can be so low." This particular kind of American perspective on Europe always falls into the same trap: Not understanding a world where economic performance is _not_ the be-all-and-end-all, not understanding the connection between the benefits of such a world (things that consider externalities - not individuals - in order to exist) with the costs of such a world (taxes).
- snake_doc 9mo ago
  What exactly is wrong with Americans or for the most part the rest of the world valuing economic performance as a measure of prosperity and progress? Your comment is again another anecdote confirming European stereotypes. It’s not a “trap”, it’s a different world view.
  - dtj1123 9mo ago
    The issue is not that it's used as a measure, it's that the thing economic performance is supposed to serve as a proxy for - the general health and stability of a society - is then completely ignored. Homelessness, mental illness and violence are objectively more pronounced in American culture than they are in European culture.
  - vouwfietsman 9mo ago
    Again this is a polarizing question. There's nothing wrong with either perspective, rather its the case that the European perspective is different. That's not to say that Europeans are right, or that criticism flowing from Europe to America is justified, but it should at least be acknowledged that pitching two players in a competition that one of the players has less interest in competing on, is misguided.
  - 9mo ago

keiferski 9mo ago

I’m responding to comments like this in the article: So I am betting that the US and China are more compelling forces for change. Stalin was fond of telling a story from his experience in Leipzig in 1907, when, to his astonishment, 200 German workers failed to turn up to a socialist meeting because no ticket controller was on the platform to punch their train tickets, citing this experience as proof of the hopelessness of Germanic obedience. Could anyone imagine Chinese or Americans being so obedient? This isn’t a serious analysis of German culture. It’s perfectly fine to argue that certain countries are economically or industrially problematic, but when you throw in comments like this, it really doesn’t help your argument. And I’m not from Europe, but I have lived here for years. The constant clueless comments by my fellow North Americans about the somehow monolithic entity of “Europe” are irritating.

snake_doc 9mo ago
[flagged]
- UncleMeat 9mo ago
  This is sealioning.
  - stephen_cagle 9mo ago
    I had never heard of this term and I thought about it for a good 30 seconds before looking it up (my best guess was it had something to do with the sea lion's "owrk" "owrk" noise when it asks for a fish at water parks). :] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning
enraged_camel 9mo ago
>> This isn’t a serious analysis of German culture. Who said it’s meant to be a serious analysis? This is an essay that shares anecdotes and personal opinions, not a PhD dissertation.
- vouwfietsman 9mo ago
  This is not really fair, the story is never explicitly discounted as hyperbole in the article and follows a range of other more mellow criticisms of europe. Also, directly following this quote, is the question: "Could anyone imagine Chinese or Americans being so obedient?". None of this points to the story being out of place, and since the author specializes in serious analysis of china's relation with america, and the author brings up europe, its fair to assume that they included this story as a relevant criticism of europe. In that regard, its indeed not of the same quality as the analyses of china or american culture.

throwaway132448 9mo ago

I mean, you only have to quote the letter itself: "I have a hard time squaring the poor prospects of Europe over the next decade with the smugness that Europeans have for themselves. I spent most of the summer in Copenhagen. There’s no doubt that quality of life in most European cities is superb, especially for what I care about: food, opera, walkable streets, access to nature. But a decade of low economic growth is biting. European prices and taxes can be so high while salaries can be so low." This particular kind of American perspective on Europe always falls into the same trap: Not understanding a world where economic performance is _not_ the be-all-and-end-all, not understanding the connection between the benefits of such a world (things that consider externalities - not individuals - in order to exist) with the costs of such a world (taxes).

snake_doc 9mo ago
What exactly is wrong with Americans or for the most part the rest of the world valuing economic performance as a measure of prosperity and progress? Your comment is again another anecdote confirming European stereotypes. It’s not a “trap”, it’s a different world view.
- dtj1123 9mo ago
  The issue is not that it's used as a measure, it's that the thing economic performance is supposed to serve as a proxy for - the general health and stability of a society - is then completely ignored. Homelessness, mental illness and violence are objectively more pronounced in American culture than they are in European culture.
- vouwfietsman 9mo ago
  Again this is a polarizing question. There's nothing wrong with either perspective, rather its the case that the European perspective is different. That's not to say that Europeans are right, or that criticism flowing from Europe to America is justified, but it should at least be acknowledged that pitching two players in a competition that one of the players has less interest in competing on, is misguided.
- 9mo ago