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tax numbers are irrelevant except as part of a takehome pay calculation. at the very least, pretending that health insurance isnt another tax is a common way t

tax numbers are irrelevant except as part of a takehome pay calculation. at the very least, pretending that health insurance isnt another tax is a common way to derail these discussions.

piker 10mo ago
That’s right if the quote is net of income tax, but that wasn’t clear. While we’re on the subject we should include the 20% VAT (delta 5-10% sales tax in the states) which is the most regressive tax on the poor there is.
- hdgvhicv 10mo ago
  No vat on the majority of spending - from rent to food. But buy a £50k Rolex and yes there is vat.
  - piker 10mo ago
    Roughly the same with sales tax, it's just 1/3rd of that number. > But buy a £50k Rolex and yes there is vat. This is wildly ignorant of how less fortunate people live. They are hit with VAT on many daily expenses. Ignoring that fact and "tsk tsk"ing them for being frivolous is the [British] way.
    - pixelpoet 10mo ago
      > the European way There we go, the European monolith strikes again. Because the UK and Germany and Spain and Italy and Poland and Finland and and and are just so alike.
      - piker 10mo ago
        For purposes of this discussion, I believe VAT is roughly uniform across the EU + UK and some other European jurisdictions. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I did update the comment to limit the critique to the UK.
    - ben_w 10mo ago
      Many daily expenses, yes. Before I left the UK, IIRC there was some campaign about tampons. But "majority" just means half. Between "The standard rate of VAT is 20 per cent, with around half of household expenditure subject to this rate." - https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/tax-by-tax-spend-by-spend/vat/ https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/tax-by-tax-spend-by-spend/... And Figure 10.2 on page 6 of https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN05620/SN05620.pdf https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN05... I'd say it's very close to even odds that the other poster is correct to say "No vat on the majority of spending". I'd also say that VAT should be reduced to encourage domestic spending and local growth, but I did leave the country for various reasons that can be simplified as "I do not expect the UK government to do the right thing".
      - hdgvhicv 10mo ago
        Tampons, toothpaste, soap. Yes it’s all crazy, but that’s maybe £5 a week in vat. Compare to £250 a week in rent and £100 a week in food and it’s peanuts.
        ben_w 10mo ago
        Yes, but you're not contradicting anything here. £5/week in VAT is what I'd expect roughly bottom 5% by income to pay, because of limited disposable income. If you eat in a restaurant, IIRC that's VAT-rated. A meal for two coming to £20? That's £3.33 of VAT you just paid. Poorest 5% can't afford to eat out basically at all, but it quickly adds up the moment you can start affording that.

tax numbers are irrelevant except as part of a takehome pay calculation. at the very least, pretending that health insurance isnt another tax is a common way to derail these discussions.

piker 10mo ago

That’s right if the quote is net of income tax, but that wasn’t clear. While we’re on the subject we should include the 20% VAT (delta 5-10% sales tax in the states) which is the most regressive tax on the poor there is.

hdgvhicv 10mo ago
No vat on the majority of spending - from rent to food. But buy a £50k Rolex and yes there is vat.
- piker 10mo ago
  Roughly the same with sales tax, it's just 1/3rd of that number. > But buy a £50k Rolex and yes there is vat. This is wildly ignorant of how less fortunate people live. They are hit with VAT on many daily expenses. Ignoring that fact and "tsk tsk"ing them for being frivolous is the [British] way.
  - pixelpoet 10mo ago
    > the European way There we go, the European monolith strikes again. Because the UK and Germany and Spain and Italy and Poland and Finland and and and are just so alike.
    - piker 10mo ago
      For purposes of this discussion, I believe VAT is roughly uniform across the EU + UK and some other European jurisdictions. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I did update the comment to limit the critique to the UK.
  - ben_w 10mo ago
    Many daily expenses, yes. Before I left the UK, IIRC there was some campaign about tampons. But "majority" just means half. Between "The standard rate of VAT is 20 per cent, with around half of household expenditure subject to this rate." - https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/tax-by-tax-spend-by-spend/vat/ https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/tax-by-tax-spend-by-spend/... And Figure 10.2 on page 6 of https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN05620/SN05620.pdf https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN05... I'd say it's very close to even odds that the other poster is correct to say "No vat on the majority of spending". I'd also say that VAT should be reduced to encourage domestic spending and local growth, but I did leave the country for various reasons that can be simplified as "I do not expect the UK government to do the right thing".
    - hdgvhicv 10mo ago
      Tampons, toothpaste, soap. Yes it’s all crazy, but that’s maybe £5 a week in vat. Compare to £250 a week in rent and £100 a week in food and it’s peanuts.
      - ben_w 10mo ago
        Yes, but you're not contradicting anything here. £5/week in VAT is what I'd expect roughly bottom 5% by income to pay, because of limited disposable income. If you eat in a restaurant, IIRC that's VAT-rated. A meal for two coming to £20? That's £3.33 of VAT you just paid. Poorest 5% can't afford to eat out basically at all, but it quickly adds up the moment you can start affording that.